. And, yes, Snape says the same to Bellatrix Lestrange in the Spinners' End chapter of HBP when she suggests that he has somehow hoodwinked Voldemort. Snape dismisses the notion for that very reason.
But I think it is entirely possible that Snape might just be the most accomplished Legilimens the world has ever seen. If you think about it, Voldemort's very confidence that no one can lie to him successfully might be the thing that trips him up. He's not the sort to even consider that somebody just might be better at something than he is after all.
As I've said before, I don't think Dumbledore is relying entirely on his own ability at Legilimency in trusting Snape. I think it has to do with Snape having loved Lily, and Dumbledore knowing that this is the one thing that cannot be faked. Therefore he trusts Snape's motivation. And let's face it; that particular motivation is not one that Dumbledore would be likely to divulge to Harry. He thinks about it when Harry demands to know why Dumbledore trusts Snape. And then decides against it. I think Harry would be sickened and furious at the idea of Snape having been in love with Lily.
Posted by Elizabeth from Australia on January 24, 2007 04:14 AM
yeah thanks Elizabeth. i have never looked at it like this. has anyone got any points on why Dumbledore was the only one Voldemort ever feared?
Posted by adam from newcastle on January 24, 2007 10:30 AM
Someone said in here that Harry Potter books have illustration. Is it true? because Estonian (I know nobody knows this country) Harry Potter book doesn't have any pictures in it. (book isn't in english,)
I realy like these things what you say in here...before I found this page i thought that Snape was realy VERY bad guy...and of course eater. In estonia nobody thinks about Harry Potter books so deeply like you (people who writes in this site). I thinks everyone in Estonia thinks dumbledore is , snape is bad, Harry is going to be ...
I realy thought about things in here and many of my thoughts were changed. Greatings from estonia! =)
Posted by Liis from Estonia on January 24, 2007 11:04 AM
Just guessing here, Adam, but I think it might come down to the fact that Dumbledore was the only person who saw Voldermort for what he was, yet never feared him. Dumbledore is completely beyond Voldemort's control. Also the scene in the pensieve in HBP when we see the child Tom Riddle in the orphanage, is important in this regard. It is also evident when Voldemort comes back to Hogwarts asking for the Defence against the Dark Arts job that he simply does not understand Dumbledore. We often fear what we can't understand or control.
And, Liis? Greetings to you from Australia! The editions of the books which came out in North America have very small pictures at the start of each chapter. The British editions don't. And obviously the Estonian edition doesn't either. You aren't missing a great deal. The American edition is not what I would consider an illustrated book. This is truly an international community in here. What a pity our national leaders don't all get in here and talk books!
Posted by Elizabeth from Australia on January 24, 2007 4:23 PM
Welcome Liis from Estonia.
I had the opposite experience. Upon reading the books, I thought that Dumbledore d because Harry needs to be on his own from now on; that Snape is good, and that Harry live happily ever after.
Now thanks to Dave Haber's website, I can benefit from many observations and theories.
Now about the most accomplished legimens the world has ever known. Snape has obviously fooled either Dumbledore or Voldemort [or both].
Hooray for Snape.
But as we read in OOTP chapter 26 "seen and unforseen" Harry was able to break into Snape's mind which issued a flood of memories. Could anyone else have done that to Snape?
Hooray for Harry
Posted by Mikey from New Jersey on January 24, 2007 8:01 PM
Elizabeth, I totally share your opinion on Voldemort. In consideration of the fact, what Dumbledore told Harry in HBP Chapter Seventeen "A Sluggish Memory" Quote:
"He was very guarded with me; he felt, I am sure, that in the thrill of discovering his true identity he had told me a little too much."
Using Voldemort's word's from his return in GoF:...I confess myself disappointed, that such a powerful Dark Wizard, imagining himself the greatest Wizard of all time, had to go to such means as sending a seventeen year old boy (Draco) to an over one hundred and fifty year old Muggle- lover like Albus Dumbledore – thus acting like all other DESPOT’s who have populated the earth since all time..!
I have always wondered why mankind lets itself be so blinded by such tyrants. I go even so far to argue that Snape is now in danger not only from “Harry, Auror’s or the Order of the Phoenix” - but also from “Master Voldemort himself! We are not fooled, neither is Voldemort – if he accepted the fact that Snape was able to liquidate Dumbledore, he must have had a really happy day, with a lot of hysterical laughing!
(Don’t know how a creature like him is having a feast – celebrating with Nagini?) No, Severus Snape is now on Voldemort’s firing-avada-kedavra list….I mean, how can he let him “exist” when Snape succeeded where the “great Lord Voldemort” failed? Like all dictators he must have this on his mind…what if the other Eaters all of a sudden start “thinking” Snape is greater than Voldemort?
Mikey, smart point you bring up about Harry’s ability to enter Snape’s mind. I believe that that s, was one of the reason’s Snape went overboard while giving Harry Occlumency lessons! Snape, who had so far mastered Occlumency against Voldemort, would all of a sudden be exposed to Voldemort because Harry cannot control his own mind! What if Voldemort catches Harry and “interrogates” him after a fashion and finds something out about Snape which he didn’t know? It would blow the so carefully laid out plan by Professor Dumbledore! Naturally, only if we are correct in the assumption that Snape is on the “good side”, which I am whole-heartily convinced!
Posted by Mistral from Switzerland on January 25, 2007 07:55 AM
Voldemort knows that Dumbledore knows so much more than he does even though he not admit it. Dumbledore greatly intimidated him as a child with the burning ward robe and the knoledge that Riddle had stolen so many things from the other orphans. Dumbledore knows way more than Voldemort is comfortable with. Dumbledore kept speaking about a power that voldemort does not know of and voldemort is afraid that Dumbledore one day use it against him. This is why Voldemort fears Dumbledore so much. And it is obvious that Snape is a very powerful Occlumens. He is the only one that Dumbledore allow to give Occlumency lessons to Harry. Because of this, I do believe Lily has something to do with Dumbledore's deepest trust in Snape. Because Ligilemence would not work very well.
Posted by Marc Silverman from Tucson, AZ on January 25, 2007 10:02 AM
Dumbledore in my opinion cant be because of well all the reasons on the site and he may (even though it is Dark Magic) have a Horcrux
also, I think his Animagus is a Pheonix and thats what happened at the end rather than him .
Posted by Gavin from Ireland on January 26, 2007 7:11 PM
Personally, I think I would be less disapointed to find out that Harry s in book 7, then to find out that Snape really is evil.
Posted by Kevin from Wisconsin on January 27, 2007 2:27 PM
Comparing Harry with Frodo in “Lord of the Rings”, he was also the “Chosen One” and his task, accompanied by Sam, to go to “Mount Doom” and destroy the “ One Ring” in the Fire”!
Destiny though had chosen the creature Gollum, uningly to fulfil the mission – alas, that couldn’t stem the tide anymore for the Ring-bearer. When Sam question’s him: Where are you going Master” – Frodo answers him: “To the Havens, Sam... I have been too deeply hurt, Sam when things are in danger; some one has to give them up, lose them so that others may keep them.”
I could live with Harry's "passing" if Jo' finds a solution similar like J.R.Tolkien or
his friend C.S. Lewis in “The Chronicles of Narnia”. I cannot go into any detail in case there are some of you out there who haven’t read all of the seven books!
I am thinking about the “Veil” in the Department of Mysteries, where Harry and Luna Lovegood heard whispers. While Harry asked: What are you saying,” it seems to him that the whispering and murmuring “Beyond the Veil”, was getting louder. There is no doubt something “in there”, or else Sirius would not have fallen or vanished on the dais. I am sure it would break our hearts if Harry s – but if we could be assured that Voldemort was defeated and he was reunited with his loved one’s, it would give us all great solace!
It is not what I wish for Harry and I admit I would not want to be in Jo’s shoes right now. No matter how Harry Potter and the ly Hallows end, she has my admiration and I see to it that I shall not be out of “stock of Kleenex” when I get to the last pages of HP and the DH!
This all said, I share Kevin’s comment about Severus Snape and hope you can forgive me for accepting the fact that Harry could possibly .
Posted by Mistral from Switzerland on January 28, 2007 08:15 AM
wow liking ivars comment from page 3 a lot about snape hating harry because of james and lilly i think it was a mixture of them both. harrys eyes remind him of lily and notice that it is always harrry who can stare out snape and the rest of haryy snape hates because it reminds him too much of james who got lily
Posted by Abz legge from france on January 30, 2007 01:20 AM
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