Search Beyond Hogwarts:
by David Haber
These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really , or at least Snape Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.
> Read the full article
Pages: << < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ... > >>
Reader Comments: (Page 4)
Let's go back to the suggestion that Dumbledore really is and that Snape ed him on Dumbledore's orders. Also, let's say that there are ways in which Dumbledore can return either through Fawkes as his horcrux or some other way. In a recent interview, Ms. Rowling confirmed that Dumbledore is really . This statement, however, does not eliminate the possibility that Dumbledore can return and Harry chooses not to make him return. That is the "choice between what is right and what is easy." That is Dumbledore's master plan. To see what Harry's "choice" is.
Posted by Anonymous from Memphis, Tennessee on October 6, 2006 3:43 PM
I don't agree with number four of your Dumbledore clues. There's a possibility that Snape could have said one, but thought another. However this is highly unlikely because even the most powerful wizard's spell color is the same. Avada Kedavra is green, as always, and if Snape thought up the expelliarmus spell, it would have been red, like always! However, you may be on to something. When Snape "ed" Dumbledore with the Avada Kedavra, he didn't truly mean it, so Dumbledore was hit with it, but it couldn't do what was intended, so it struck him with a force not hard enough to him, merely knock him away! Then Fawkes appeared and caught Dumbledore in the middle of his flight to the earth, and set him on the ground, because nobody saw Dumbledore fall.
Posted by Tom K. from Portland on October 6, 2006 4:12 PM
as i have been sitting here for the past 3 hours reading anything and everyhting on this site (which is brilliant by the way), i have been thinking of things that my own discussions with other HP fanatics. doing all this, including trying to teach myself the arithmancy lesson, of course, insead of doing my chemistry homework.
one of the theories that i had was that dumbledore was, in fact, a phoenix animagus. he is definitly close with that bird and when harry sees a phoenix after the flames leave the spot where dumbledore's body supposedly is engulfed in flames, i knew that is was most certainly so.
there is one small, may be insignificant on the whole, but mentionable. when harry first meets fawkes in the socerers stone, dumbledore tells harry that fawkes has been looking dredful for days. all throughout HBP, dumbledore's hand becomes more mangled. looking dreadful.
dumbledore plays to big of a part in the demise of the dark lord to truly be gone. i beleive with all of the comment of him truly being gone from JKR are simple a ruse. she has to keep us contradicting and guessing.
Posted by Alanna Donovan from La Jolla, California on October 7, 2006 01:08 AM
This theory came to me when I was reading the HBP and I was very surprised with what Snape said... When Narcissa and Bellatrix go to his home talk with him, Snape says:
"If I had ed Harry Potter, the Dark Lord could not have used his blood to regenerate, making him invincible..."
Invincible? The way I see it, Harry's blood only gave Voldemort a Love protection, the same protection that Harry has. So, or Snape is wrong, or he's right, and if he is Harry must be invincible too! But I don't think they are invincible, because it won't match with the prophecy. Otherwise, the love protection protects Harry from Voldemort. The love protection would protect Voldemort from... Voldemort? Funny, huh? We are getting close from my next clue.
2- This made me come back to the Goblet of Fire, and one more time I found something that make this clue even more suspicious! When Dumbledore is talking with Harry and Sirius after Voldemort's Return, he does something really unusual.
"He (Voldemort) said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone else's." Harry told Dumbledore "He said the protection my - my mother left in me – he'd have it too. And he was right –he could touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face." (And now comes the interesting part...)
"For a fleeting instant, Harry though he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes."
There is something here. The fact that Voldemort can now attack him is not a happy thing. First thing that comes to my mind was "LOVE". This seems like Dumbledore was happy to see that Voldemort showed his Love ignorance again. I'm really sure that in Harry's world, Love got incredible powers, and Dumbledore knows that. I think he'll be the one to really understand the love in the story. However we can't say "It is love, we can't get it, it's over." So, just keep this in your mind:
Voldemort is the strongest wizard. He has great Magical Power. Even stronger than Dumbledore's Magical Power, I guess. It is Dumbledore who admit it. HOWEVER, no one can say no to this: Dumbledore is wiser. Also, Dumbledore could be thinking what i think; Voldemort has not big advantage with Harry's blood.
Posted by Rafael Garcia from Oporto, Portugal on October 8, 2006 08:35 AM
This clue is putting me crazy for a long long time. And it is one more time in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.
It is after Dumbledore's . When they are around Bill and McGonagall came in. After some moments they were talking about the all thing since Harry and Dumbledore left the school, and in a certain time Lupin says:
"…One of them, Gibbon, broke away and headed up the tower stairs -"
"To set off the Mark?" asked Harry.
"He must have done, yes, they must have arranged that before they left the Room of Requirement," said Lupin. "But I don't think Gibbon liked the idea of waiting up there alone for Dumbledore, because he came running back downstairs to rejoin the fight and was hit by a ing Curse that just missed me."
...But I don't think Gibbon liked the ideia "Of waiting up there alone for Dumbledore..."?
How did they know that Dumbledore would land there? As well as I think, Rosmerta only said that Dumbledore would go for a coffee. A coffee wouldn't take so long. In the better situation Dumbledore and Harry would be in a half way to the castle!
So someone was informing The Dark Side about the medallion Horcrux suspicious, and that Dumbledore would go that night to find out!
SNAPE! And in the good way!
Dumbledore wouldn't tell Snape that he would go that night to the cave just because he'd like to share it with Dear Snivellus. And even if he would say that to him, Snape would be at least pretending to be guarding the castle with the others. Not in his bedroom!
So I think Dumbledore told Snape to inform Voldemort about the Horcrux trip,
And Voldemort, pleased about the useful information, believed in Snape's good intentions.
These are just some theories I have, I hope they would help your mind.
And I just got to say Thanks to the DumbledoreIsNot.com moderator. If I didn't find this Website, I would be still believing that Dumbledore is . The Clues in the website are really amazing.
Posted by Rafael Garcia from Oporto, Portugal on October 8, 2006 08:37 AM
well the fawkes thing about dumbledore being able to reborn cause in number two c.o.s dumbledore looks the same age but in g.o.f when harry goes into the pensieve dumbledore is younger and that was only like a year old memory
Posted by Jack Smallwood on October 8, 2006 9:55 PM
I think that dumbledore has been planning his from the very beginning when harry first came to hogwarts. there were clues in all of the books, including snape talking about an elixir that stopped in the first book. i think that snape got tot he cave before dumbledore and harry, and put the elixir into the poison water for dumbledore to drink. it all lead up to snape ing him, but i think that that was part of the plan all along, and the headmaster is just in hiding.
if he really is though, then i hope that in the last book harry voldemort, and when that happens, all of the people that the dark wizard had ed become alive again from the wand. sort of like in the goblet of fire, but for real. harry's parents, diggory, etc. be revived.
Posted by Julia Stewart on October 9, 2006 08:48 AM
I still think Dumbledore is , but I was re-reading HBP and I noticed how quickly Snape tries to get all of them out of there. Sure they're in a battle with the Order and don't want to hang around, but something strikes me as odd about the passage, almost as if Snape doesn't want to give his fellow DE's time to do something (find Harry? find and look over Dumbledore body? suspect that the AK curse was ineffective?) Anyone else get this impression?
Posted by Saint Cad from Los Angeles on October 9, 2006 1:13 PM
Well, let’s start with what this is about: Dumbledore’s . Almost each and every one of us seems to believe that Dumbledore is not , maybe he is, maybe he’s not, anyway, there are clues that seem to point to his and several clues that question these other clues.
The clues that seem to point to his are:
-The Unbreakable Vow (Half-Blood Prince US Edition pg. 36-37)
This text gives out that Snape was not completely, I think, of knowledge of what he was vowing to do. Why? Before he states that he knows about Draco’s mission, he goes to the window and closed the curtains with a jerk. He must have been using Legillimency on Narcissa, because it was not until that that he may have known of the plans and Narcissa was very emotional, meaning that she was a very easy target. Another evidence that could sustent that Snape’s not in on it is that his hand twitched when Narcissa asks him to “carry out the deed the dark lord has ordered Draco to perform” and there is time between this question and the answer, for maybe Snape was finding out what would Draco must do. Mind you, I don’t think it matters if you do or do not know what you’re unbreakably vowing to, you are still making the vow, the fact that you’re stupid enough to MAKE IT without knowing the whole terms is your business, not the person to who you’re vowing to. About attempting fooling the vow by making the person you made the vow with believe that you actually made it, I do not think it possible, because the magic is in BOTH of your minds, you might fool the other person, but you cannot fool yourself, and that’s how it goes, proof of this is Horace Slughorn’s tampered memory, a VERY POOR “tampering” of his own memory, if someone cannot tamper their memory, how can you go around the Unbreakable Vow, where the connection es physical (by holding hands), mental and magical at the same time? If you see it this way it’s either is that Dumbledore’s or Snape would have dropped in that spot, because he would have betrayed his concience.
However, let’s present the counter-clue to this one: Dumbledore’s memory. The text goes:
"And now for the very last recollection I have to show you, at least until you manage to retrieve Professor Slughorn's memory for us. Ten years separates Hokey's memory and this one, ten years during which we can only guess at what Lord Voldemort was doing..." Harry got to his feet once more as Dumbledore emptied the last memory into the Pensieve.
"Whose memory is it?" he asked. "Mine," said Dumbledore.
See the catch? Why, if it’s Dumbledore’s memory, Dumbledore’s office AND Dumbledore’s Pensieve, would it have been in a bottle and not in the Pensieve itself OR why wouldn’t Dumbledore retrieve it from his mind right on the spot? This makes you think a bit, if you see how I see it, that someone could be impersonating Dumbledore right there. Who? We can only guess. And if someone was impersonating Dumbledore there, could he have been impersonated when he and Harry set off for the fake Horcrux? It is not unknown that Dumbledore had not been around very much, he might have left instructions or orders that Harry and the impersonator were to go for the Horcrux while he might have been somewhere else.
Posted by Raúl Llavaneras from San Antonio de Los Altos, Venezuela on October 10, 2006 6:45 PM
Now, let’s combine these clues and we add Draco and Snape, aided and vower. As the vow is about helping Draco, his knowledge ARE of importance, if HE thinks Snape ed Dumbledore and not an impersonator, things change a bit, and things would change a bit more if you add my own suspicion that not even Snape himself would have known that he ed an impersonator, not even the knowledge of Dumbledore’s neverending trust toward Snape would have mattered if he (Dumbledore) wanted nobody to know his whereabouts, and that’s why neither Snape or any other teacher would have know, Hagrid, which Dumbledore would trust his life, included.
I do not want to believe that Dumbledore’s six feet under, but I have reasons to believe so and to believe otherwise, only JKR truly knows this.
-The Ceremony: There’s a Ceremony for Dumbledore’s demise, where EVERYONE came to. Centaurs, Merpeople and little baby Grawp included. The catch here: we never see Dumbledroe’s body, read here these two bits, in the final chapter of HBP:
“Hagrid was walking slowly up the aisle between the chairs. He was crying quite silently, his face gleaming with tears, and in his arms, wrapped in purple velvet spangled with golden stars, was what Harry knew to be Dumbledore's body.”
“… several people screamed. Bright, white flames had erupted around Dumbledore's body and the table upon which it lay: higher and higher they rose, obscuring the body. White smoke spiralled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into the blue, but next second the fire had vanished. In its place was a white marble tomb, encasing Dumbledore's body and the table on which he had rested.”
See? There’s mention to it, however, the only time we see Dumbledore really is after the fight, when harry grabs the fake Horcrux.
-Harry can move: After Dumbledore supposedly snuffed it, Harry can move, this normally means the caster of the spell is , but let’s go back to book 1, Hermione petrifies Neville, there is no evidence that someone performs the countercurse, and still we know Neville is unfrozen for the end of year feast, as everybody hugs him for his cup-winning ten points. I think there’s some time limit is minor jinxes like those, and distance should matter too, seeing that Dumbledore is no longer at the tower. So, add up time and distance and the jinx wears off, as all jinxes, if you need proof, you can look at the Quidditch World Cup Souvenirs, the giant cover of the Quibbler the twins jinxed into saying “Eat Dung, Umbridge”, and so on.
Posted by Raúl Llavaneras from San Antonio de Los Altos, Venezuela on October 10, 2006 6:46 PM
Now, let us move on to a question that REALLY makes you think:
Is Snape evil?
Well, let’s assume Dumbledore really snuffed it. That doesn’t make Snape evil if we consider it was planned by Dumbledore NOR if Snape acted like a human being, my father’s always said “In the gates of Heaven, I go in before my mother”, it’s human nature, survival instinct, because he knew that if he didn’t Dumbledore (or his impersonator), the other option was , so none of us can blame him for that, I know I would have ed Dumbledore if my life depended on that, and that doesn’t make me evil, does it? I know you’re thinking “OMG, you should be ed for saying that in this site”.
Let’s take Hermione’s words in HBP, Final Chapter (The White Tomb) in one of the first pages “Evil is a strong word”
Marrian-Webterizing (as in the Marrian-Webster dictionary) Evil: Profoundly immoral, wicked, depraved and malevolent, associated with the forces of the Devil, harmful or tending to harm, extremely unpleasant. Wicked, bad, wrong, immoral, sinful, foul, vile, dishonorable, corrupt, iniquitous, depraved, villainous, nefarious, vicious, malicious, reprobate, malevolent, sinister, demonic, devilish, diabolical, fiendish, dark, monstrous, shocking, despicable, atrocious, heinous, odious, contemptible, horrible, ececrable, lowdown, dirty.
Mind you, that is one STRONG word, there is no literal word in Spanish (my mother language) for evil.
So, is Snape evil?
I think not, when he Unbreakably Vowed, it was not by complete , you see? If he didn’t, he would have given Bellatrix Lestrange a reason to suspect of Snape as untrustworthy and that would have been a crushing blow for the Order of the Phoenix, because if Snape, their spy, was lost, they lose one giantload of information because, as Narcissa Malfoy reckons he’s trusted by Voldemort, read this:
—"It so happens that I know of the plan," he said [Snape] in a low voice. "I am one of the few the Dark Lord has told. Nevertheless, had I not been in on the secret, Narcissa, you would have been guilty of great treachery to the Dark Lord."
"I thought you must know about it!" said Narcissa, breathing more freely. "He trusts you so, Severus..."— (HBP C.2: Spinner’s End)
So, he is of trust for both Dumbledore and Voldemort, yet no one else seems to trust in him, because Draco refused his help, everyone in Hogwarts thinks he’s on the Dark Side and Eaters think The Dark Lord to be wrong about him.
Now, bottomline, I don’t think Snape is evil, he is, undoubtedly, a jackhole, but not evil, we must not cunfuse our displeasure towards him (let’s face it, WE ALL HATE THE GUY!) for being our “hero’s” father’s sworn enemy with evilness. Besides, there is only oh so little time when one can hide his true colors, no matter how good of an actor you are, nobody can fool so many of his true intentions for many time, do you honestly think that you can hide your true colors to the most BRILLIANT person on Earth for 16 years? No way. Now, towards Voldemort, he has given him information, although we do not know of what kind or about what or who it is referred to (although it is safe to assume it is of Harry and/or Dumbledore), but he has given it, therefore, Voldemort has his reasons to trust Snape, at least in some degree. The fact that he is of trust for both of them is confusing, as we do not know towards whom he is loyal, and where he and Draco went to after the battle in the grounds is unknown to us, we ought to treat this with extreme care, for he may be an outcast on both sides, now, we’ll have to see what happens. Snape’s allegiance is of great importance to Harry’s future, there is no doubt about that. A reason to believe Snape isn’t evil: you can read that he didn’t mean the Avada Kedavra, and that rests A LOT of power to the spell.
Posted by Raúl Llavaneras from San Antonio de Los Altos, Venezuela on October 10, 2006 6:48 PM
Important! The major supporting fact that Dumbledore is not !
Let's go back to chapter 28 The Flight of the Prince. Harry has just finished helping Hagrid putting out his house. They're walking back to the castle, and Harry goes up to dumbledore's body.
From HBP pg. 608:
Dumbledore’s eyes were closed; but for the strange angle of his arms and legs, he might have been sleeping.
There you have it. Every other time we have seen the Avada Kedavra performed, the victim's eyes were fused open. But not in this case. Dumbledore's eyes are closed.
Fom GOF page 638:
For a second that contained an eternity, Harry stared into Cedric's face, at his open gray eyes, blank and expressionless as the windows of a deserted house...
Cedric's eyes were open when he was ed. Portrayed in the movie the Goblet of Fire, Mr. crouch's eyes were also open when he was found by Harry. Very strangely, Dumbledore's eyes are closed. This supports the theory that Dumbledore was hit by a curse that Snape did not fully mean, or in other words, a "half-curse." Please consider this theory of mine as it makes perfect sense. If you disagree or find a flaw, please respond on this site.
Posted by Matt F. from Memphis, Tennessee on October 11, 2006 09:45 AM
Pages: << < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ... > >>