Search Beyond Hogwarts:
by David Haber
These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really , or at least Snape Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.
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Reader Comments: (Page 17)
Karen and Margriet, i feel like we've discussed the possibility of Voldemort pretending to be Snape elsewhere on this site. I said it before and i'll say it again....i really don't see Vodlemort hanging out and waiting the year to finish Dumbledore. If he (voldemort) were at Hogwarts he would have ed them all (Harry too) ASAP.
Herve, i always enjoy your posts. When i made my first post on Dec 26th New Revelations I had suggested the possibility that a Dumbldedore from the future had come back to the past and it was that future Dumbledore who was ed up on the tower (p17 New Revelations for full description).
I am almost certain that someone on this site had debunked it (saying something about JKR stating that there was no time turning in 7). Now, i went back to check and can't for the life of me find that comment. I'm noy sure if some are deleted over time. Or perhaps, the poster was in fact wrong, and so the comment was deleted. I am hoping for the latter as i really think that you and I may be on to something.
Once again, thanks for all your posts, Herve---I like your ideas and I definately agree with this one. I believe that this is a good plausible theory. Glad to see it may be back on the table :)
Posted by Heather from NJ on February 20, 2007 5:42 PM
about the time turning...didnt hermoine mention in book 7 that the ministery or someone had destroyed all the time turners?
Posted by Dvin from Glendale, CA on February 20, 2007 6:54 PM
Dvin, that may be true, but it says nothing about the ones already held by private inviduals. I know that i would not be too quick to turn mine in if I had one. would you?
Dumbldore could easily be in possession of his own, and the Ministry has never been able to control Dumbledore.
Posted by Heather from NJ on February 20, 2007 8:23 PM
Heather, it is under the Rumors section of her website, under Dumbledore is really Ron/Harry from the future.
It says: Iíve also heard a whisper about Ron and Hermioneís son time-travelling, so I shall go further and tell you that NONE of the characters in the books has returned from the future.
As for your theory that had Voldermort been in Hogwarts, disguised as Snape, he would have ed everyone very quickly, I say not so fast there.
Waiting around and not ing everyone immediately would have meant that he could do what? Teach Defense of the Dark Arts, which had long been a fascination with him, since he himself was a student at Hogwarts actually. Such a desire he had for this position that he cursed the position after being turned down the second time. That alone I think would have been enough for him to have held off.
Also, he may have wanted to see how Malfoy would do on the task given to him. And he did not just want Dumbledore and Harry , he wanted inside information on the OotP also, to as many of them as possible, so by playing Snape for a year, while no one suspected, he would have gotten a lot of good information. And being completely unsuspected, getting away with it, would have sure been a big Ego thing.
Now I can think of some other things that do not fit with this theory, as with all theories, but I don't think that "Voldermort would have immediately ed them" is enough to dispell it.
I believe what Hermonie said was that the entire stock of Ministry of Magic time turners had been destroyed. I have long suspected that Dumbledore's watch is actually a time turner. It would not have been Ministry stock.
Posted by karen from Texas on February 20, 2007 9:11 PM
Thanks much for reminding us.
Your comment is troubling, because it seems to invalidate a very interesting idea, Dumbledore traveling through time. That seems to be the story he told Fudge about ("the usual story about time-reversal")
Maybe, Jo didn't really mean that: if you put her post in the context, she says "Iíve also heard a whisper about Ron and Hermioneís son time-travelling, so I shall go further and tell you that NONE of the characters in the books has returned from the future". I think it means that none of the characters have returned from over book 7. Jo might here consider the entire saga as one story (she didn't say "in HBP" or "in OotP", she said "in the books"). Nobody in this story would have come from the future. That invalidates Harry's son coming back to become Dumbledore. But I don't think that s the idea of someone time-traveling inside the books, and even from one book to the other. At least, we saw that Harry and Hermione came back from the future in PoA.
So, let's hope!
Posted by herve from strasbourg on February 20, 2007 11:23 PM
You quote in the article: "White smoke spiraled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into the blue, but next second the fire had vanished. (HBP pg 645/601)" It is joyful, vanishing, really looks like a corporal patronus.
But who would be able to send a phoenix patronus? Dumbledore himself. This tends to prove that Dumbledore was there alive, attending his own burial.
Posted by herve from strasbourg on February 22, 2007 09:31 AM
herve, i was waiting to hear what you had to say about the time travel (reversal) "problem". I think you may be right. I'm hoping that as long as the time travel takes place within the 7 books, it is still considered OK. JKR does seems to imply in her comment that the "future" was really beyond the scope of the books. In this case, Dumbledore can do all the time travelling that many of us have speculated upon.
As for the Harry observing a phoenix in the smoke spiral, I think it is one of two things. First, it could be Dumbledore himself flying away after being reborn as phoenix. Or second, it could be Dumbledore sending a patronus to someone in the order. I would guess to Snape, but I supppose it could be anyone. With either senario, it still means good news for us dumbledore is not believers :)
Posted by Heather from NJ on February 22, 2007 5:31 PM
I think that the phoenix was a real phoenix of sorts. Real only in the sense that it was a living breathing organism and not smoke itself. Unreal in the sense that it was truly Dumbledore. I have believed for some time that Dumbledore is an Animagus phoenix, and I am holding tight to that theory.
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on February 22, 2007 7:05 PM
Ashley, I agree with you in that my first gut reaction is that Dumbldore IS a phoenix and can therefore be reborn out of his own ashes. That basically explains what we all observed at his "flamable" . I do think it is a good theroy. He was probaly not registered in this century, since he is 150 years old, which is why Hermione never found him on the list. That also would allow JKR to claim that Dumbledore d--he did--but...he was reborn! We'll find that out in DH, and voldemort won't know it. Neither Harry until he meets someone who likes raspberry jam.
My other patronus-in-the-smoke-signal theory is my "back up" theory.
Posted by Heather from NJ on February 25, 2007 09:24 AM
The first time i read that sentence about Dumbledore's favorite type of jam being raspberry, i just thought it was one of those weird things Dumbledore does. He tends to do alot of those weird things lol. But seriously, now that sentence makes sense. I mean, everything Dumbledore says has a meaning to it, it isn't just random babble. So if-what am i saying, WHEN- Dumbledore comes back in DH now you guys have me thinking he'll tell Harry that his favorite type of jam is raspberry
Unless anyone brought some Veritaserum?
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on February 25, 2007 1:26 PM
yes, Ashley, and i wouldn't be surprised if that scar of Dumbledore's, that looks like the london underground on his knee, proves to be important too. I mentioned that once and Herve (who I respect and enjoy reading his posts) seemed to think that Dumbldore was only joking, but i say it be important.
Posted by Heather from NJ on February 25, 2007 4:54 PM
Heather: I don't think Dumbledore was joking when he told about his scar, although he probably doesn't have such a scar for real. I think he explained how a scar would be useful: as a map. This map would show the exact place for something very important, probably something that contains a bit of Voldemort's soul, in Harry's head.
Speaking of Dumbledore, I think we should give more attention to some of his words:
(1) The raspberry jam, of course.
(2) The first words he uses at Hogwarts: nitwit, blubber, oddment and tweak.
(3) What he tells Mc Gonagall when he lives Hogwarts in OotP: "I'm not going into hiding."
(4) What Fudge says just before, still in OotP, about Dumbledore's "-and-bull" story: is it to discredit Dumbledore, or does he quote some explanation Dumbledore gave him several times?
Posted by herve from strasbourg on February 26, 2007 05:21 AM
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