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Why did Dumbledore have James' cloak?

by David Haber

On a new post on her official web site, J.K. Rowling admitted she made a mistake in New York when she was asked, what question have you never been asked that you ought to have been asked? She now says the question should have been, Why did Dumbledore have James' invisibility cloak at the time of James' death, given that Dumbledore could make himself invisible without a cloak?

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Reader Comments: (Page 18)

Dave, I think you misunderstood my intention... It is the face that neither Harry nor LV came out of the wand in GOF that demonstrates neither were ed by its spell. However, this is irrelevant thanks to Aditi pointing out there is no horcrux spell.

Posted by John from Riverside, CA on October 8, 2006 12:10 AM

Several recent posts have commented about the Prior Incantatem, the Reverse Spell effect, that occurred in the graveyard in GoF. Aditi and John referred to the fact that no Horcrux spell came out of LV's wand so neither Harry nor LV were ed by its spell.

In GoF (p. 697 American ed.) DD explains that brother wands not do battle against each other but one force the other to regurgitate prior spells in reverse order, "The most recent first...and then those which preceded it...." DD explains to Harry as Harry names the echoes he saw until his parents. DD continues, "More would have appeared, of course, had you maintained the connection." (p. 698).

So, whatever another site may have said about there being no Horcrux spell coming from LV's wand, does not take into account that the Priori Incantatem just didn't go back far enough.

But, this does tell us something very important about LV's spells since the night the Potters were ed. He has made no Horcruxes since he ed Lily Potter.

Isn't that just like JKR? Leading us in the right direction, then cutting off the information right before we get to our destination. I'm ing to bet that the final Horcrux spell he cast was right before he ed her.

This also leads me to believe that DD's statement to Harry that LV made Nagini a Horcrux, "After an interval of some years..." (p. 506) with the of Frank Bryce is erroneous. So, Harry still has to locate the cup and the locket and still must identify and destroy 2 more: something of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's (which I still believe is his scar) and whatever is a Horcrux in place of Nagini.

Posted by Hannah from Los Angeles on October 8, 2006 1:20 PM

Ok, i don't think it's a horcrux. it could just be a family heirloom. james could have given it to dumbledore knowing that he was in danger of . if harry survived he wanted him to have something of his. I know that if i before my children are old enough to know what's going on i'd like someone to give them an heirloom of mine.

Posted by lysservonne from mustang ok on October 8, 2006 2:44 PM

okay, the prior incantatam thing with the wands: first of all it is suppossed to do all spells in reverse order right? well didn't voldemort james and lily BEFORE he tried to harry? so even though that spell backfired it should have come out of the wand before lily and james right?

Posted by tonya from cordele,ga on October 8, 2006 4:03 PM

Oh, what a tangled web JKR has woven. Tonya makes a good point that the backfired spell would come out of the wand before Lily and James in GoF. But, do we know if uncompleted spells are stored in the wand? And, for that matter, are all spells, jinxes, hexes, etc. stored in the wand or is it only curses?
I always seem to end up with this: AK does not leave a mark. LV gave Harry his scar that night, he didn't him. The spell that caused that scar likely was cast before ing Lily. While the attempted AK curse was cast after.

Posted by Hannah from Los Angeles on October 8, 2006 4:56 PM

Oops-should have finished my last thought. The spell that caused Harry's scar (whether inadvertent or deliberately meant for Harry) was cast before ing Lily, so it would be regurgitated after Lily's echo-therefore, it didn't appear in the graveyard because the connection was broken. The AK curse was cast after ing Lily and should have come out of the wand. Why didn't it? That's what prompted my question about whether unsuccessful curses are stored in the wand at all.

Posted by Hannah from Los Angeles on October 8, 2006 8:25 PM

Hannah, you have pointed out something very important:

- "The last s the wand performed," said Dumbledore, nodding. "In reverse
order. More would have appeared, of course, had you maintained the connection. Very well, Harry, these echoes, these shadows... what did they do?" -

If you notice, the Priori Incantatem did not take place in order:

- The smoky shadow of a tall man with untidy hair fell to the ground as Bertha had done, straightened up, and looked at him... and Harry, his arms shaking madly now, looked back into the ghostly face of his father.

"Your mother's coming..." he said quietly. "She wants to see you... it be all right... hold on...." And she came... first her head, then her body... a young woman with long hair, the smoky, shadowy form of Lily Potter blossomed from the end of Voldemort's wand, fell to the ground, and straightened like her husband. -

Wasn�t Lily Potter supposed to come out of the wand before James Potter? We know from �Prisoner of Azkaban� that Voldemort ed James first and then he ed Lily. So this means the horcrux could have come out afterwards if the connection was maintained as Dumbledore explains.

John, you suggested that Voldemort�s wand might be a horcrux. I don�t think that's possible because you have to use the wand to make the horcrux, because Slughorn says a spell is required. I still think Nagini is a horcrux. What do you think?

Back to Harry�s invisibility cloak � Ruth said it might be a store of memories. I did think about this initially when I remembered the description of the cloak from the first book, �Something fluid and silvery gray went slithering to the floor where it lay in gleaming folds.� We know that memories are silver in colour, and we also know that Mad-Eye kept a photograph of the original Order in his invisibility cloak � so the cloaks might have some sort of hidden pocket or something. But I still feel that the invisibility cloak just has one function � to make the person/people wearing it invisible.

Posted by Javed from New Delhi, India on October 9, 2006 08:15 AM

Javed, I have read before that the order in which they appeared was actually just a mistake. Lilly was actually supposed to appear first. I had this question also and tried to look it up and found comments reguarding JKR's "admitted mistake"...I don't know if this is true because I never found the actual comment from her (JKR)
I still however think that this is really important, it seems too big to really be a mistake. She also had a lot of imput on this particular scene in the movie (the scene at the potter's house) It made me think that it was done on purpose to hide the actual facts. Also it seems logical that something (spell or otherwise) should have appeared for Harry before Lilly came out. Wormtail's hand is not a curse, I assume that this is a spell.

Posted by tracy on October 9, 2006 09:29 AM

Okay, I just want to say here that I was not referring to the AK curse that backfired. I was only stating about Harry not being a Horcrux. If he really was one, there would something related to Harry that would reappear as an echo, BEFORE James and Lily came out of the wand. The making of a horcrux does require a spell, of which we saw no shadow.

As for why the shadow of the backfired AK didn't appear, it was because neither was ed by it. It has been the only unsuccessful such curse we know of. The shadow of every successful one was always the victim. No green light, nothing. Thus, no victim; no shadow.

Yes Tracy. Its true that JK's editor made a mistake. Its given in a website called 'Madam Scoops' (I'm not sure that's the exact name but put it in Google).

Hannah, I made the same mistake thinking that PI shows us that LV made no more Horcruxes after James and Lily's s. But that was when he had just regenerated. After that there were 2 more s of Emmeline Vance and Madam Bones, for which LV could be responsible. He might have made maximum 2 since THEN.

Although I don't think Nagini is one. For one, he didn't make her a Horcrux with Bryce's (as suspected by DD) and, she'd just DIE soon! I mean, why would LV make something a Horcrux that he knows like a mortal? SHE doesn't have horcruxes does she? Does that appeal to you?

Posted by Aditi Dani from Nagpur, India on October 9, 2006 11:14 AM

I've been reading other comments and the one about how James rescued Snape is this: he saved him from drowning, when Sirius threw him in the Black Lake for spying on them. I think it was also the day James noticed Lily for the first time...

Posted by D H from Bolivia, NC on October 9, 2006 4:22 PM

Aditi, you're right, of course about the s of Emmeline Vance and Madam Bones. But, their s had not happened yet when Harry's and LV's wands battled in the graveyard. So, what came out of his wand at that time were the echoes of his victims up until Lily Potter. It was DD who told Harry when he returned from the graveyard that he believed LV had not made any more Horcruxes after his attempt on Harry until he ed Frank Bryce which I believe is erroneous thinking on DD's part (In other words, I don't believe LV used Bryce's to make a Horcrux of Nagini).

Now, in Harry's sixth year (or the summer before it), LV may very well have been the one to AK one or both of those women. Are you saying he made Horcruxes out of their s? From the circumstantial evidence in the books so far and with what DD believes, which is generally correct, it seems to me that LV had already made the six Horcruxes he needed to split his soul into seven parts. The Vance and Bones s, I don't believe, had anything to do with Horcruxes. In any case, if he ed them, their echoes would come out of his wand before the Potters since they were ed after the Potters. We won't know unless LV and Harry battle again in Book Seven.

Posted by Hannah from Los Angeles on October 9, 2006 4:34 PM

Been doing more reading and I disagree with the writer who said perhaps DD was at the Potter's the night V ed them. There is no way he would have allowed that to happen. Since he's the only one V ever feared, V would have jumped on his broomstick and made tracks! But, someone WAS there and picked-up what was left of V and his wand...who? Pettigrew perhaps? He knew V was going to James and Lily, maybe V made him come along to watch the show. And one other comment...does anyone remember the look DD gave the boys under the invisibility cloak in Chamber of Secrets? Clearly, he could see Harry and Ron because he made comments directly to them. And he wasn't there when they arrived at Hagrids. Love it! Keep 'em coming!

Posted by D H from Bolivia, NC on October 9, 2006 4:36 PM

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