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The Aftermath: We were all correct
by David Haber
Sometime a week before Book 7 came out, someone commented that Harry would die, but then come back. I think most everyone on the site thought it was a silly idea. But I told several people at that time that I thought that just might be the perfect solution, although I couldn't figure out how J.K. could make it work. J.K. did, of course! So, the half of the Harry Potter fans in the world who thought Harry would die were right! And the other half who thought he would live were also right!
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Reader Comments: (Page 82)
i asked that question about how hermione and ron got out of the chamber as well. my friend reminded me that they got their broomsticks with them after they flew out from the fiendfyre with malfoy and goyle.
Posted by parnparn from hong kong on September 8, 2007 09:26 AM
I believe Ron and Hermione took brooms with them when they went to get the basilisks fangs so they flew out.
Posted by jeannette from simi valley ca. on September 8, 2007 10:28 AM
Broomsticks! Yes, that makes sense, thanks!
Posted by Cecil from Tacoma, WA on September 8, 2007 5:07 PM
why is there no graduating ceremonies at hogwarts? Do they just leave their 7th year? where do they go for higher learning like for healers? Why was dumbledore so old, did he drink of the elixir of life?
Posted by Pamela from Ar on September 8, 2007 9:25 PM
Oh my gosh, this just flew into my head, and it is too weird!
It said in the prophecy that "the Dark Lord would mark him as his equal". Well, Voldemort literally did mark Harry, and he made him a Horcrux, like his equal!
When Trelawney gets into her dreamy trance, does she actually see things how they happen? Did she see Voldemort go after the Elder Wand, what Harry was all along? I wonder if and what prophecies she'll make in the future.
Posted by C.J. from Utah on September 8, 2007 9:55 PM
"So perhaps Harry was the only one able to defeat Voldemort regardless of the prophecy..."
But would Harry have had the opportunity to defeat Voldemort without being singled out as he was? Who would pin their hopes on one student unless directed to by the prophecy?
I agree that the prophecy merely identified Harry as the one with the power, but I think it should not be underestimated as a factor in Voldemort's downfall.
As to Snape's role in Dumbledore's plan, I don't think he knew anything of the Hallows' relevance. Dumbledore didn't trust him that much, he couldn't even trust himself to not use them selfishly.
Also, I found another instance where earlier events mirror something in ly Hallows.
In PoA, Harry escapes Privet Drive to evade the Ministry and is out of contact with everyone, as he, Hermione and Ron hide in the tent in DH. He uses an alias (Neville) as the others disguised themselves with Polyjuice Potion in DH. Stan Shunpike is present both times.
Posted by Patty from Quincy,Massachusetts on September 9, 2007 09:04 AM
Has anyone noticed one very funny fact in DH, when the trio learned about the ly Hallows from Xeno, they each chose one of them which signifies that the three together represent the underlying meaning of the Hallows? Hermione, always being the most pratical of the three, chose the cloak which would help them in their adventures. Ron and Harry chose the wand and resurrection stone respecticely also mirrored what happened in SS. Ron wanted to outpreform his brothers with the unbeatable wand and Harry wanted the resurrection stone for his parents, just like what they saw in the mirror of Erised in SS. That is incredibly brillant for JKR.
I think Harry did not call for Dumbledore with the resurrection stone because close they might have been on the quest, Harry did not see Dumbledore as family. While his parents, Sirius and Lupin are definitely family to him. Dumbledore is more of a mentor and someone he would expect answers from. Harry looked up to and admire and trust him but never felt close enough to see him as part of his family. That is what I think.
Posted by Fiona from Hong Kong on September 9, 2007 12:19 PM
C.J, Patty and Joe!
thank you guys for the many comments on the prophecy issue. It has really bugged me and now I think that we are really getting down to the essence of it.
The thought that the horcrux is talked about in the prophecy is brilliant. It just makes perfect sense!
With "powers the dark lord knows not" I also think that harrys ability to love is meant. But it is also true that harry has the power of the elder wand and the dark lord doesn't know it. I think it was C.J who said, that the prophecy was valid only at the point it was made and that the future events were based on harrys decisions. I like the idea.
(Another parallel. At the end of hp4 Dumbledore says in his speech that times come in which decisions are to be made between what is right and what is easy. I think he is already eluding to Harry's decision to face Voldy, break up with ginny, sacrifice his life; there are many others - ron and hermione leaving their families and going with harry...)
About the original plan. I think that Dumbledore thought that Harry didn't need the hallows to come back from King's Cross. He already knew (guessed) about the twofold connection and was pretty sure that Harry would survive the attack. (a gleam of triumph crossed Dumbledores face when Harry told about Voldemort taking his blood in hp4). So he didn't really intend Harry to end up with the hallows in the first place.
I also agree with the person who said that nobody else could have ed voldemort. I think that even though harry didn't KILL voldemort with a ing curse, he was the reason that the curse rebounded. So nobody else could have created the circumstances for Voldemorts .
Any more ideas about the original plan and the prophecy? I am eager to hear/discuss more.
Posted by pigwidgeon28 from Austria on September 10, 2007 01:48 AM
Joe, CJ, Patty:
I am also confused about what actually saved Harry. On the one hand Dumbledore says it was the magic in Lily's blood that saved Harry and the twofold connection with Voldemort. On the other hand, if it is only this that saved Harry, why then did Harry have to unite the DH? Or did he not? Maybe it was Dumbledores's plan that Harry should get only the two remaining hallows in order to support him with their powers. I mean he wanted Harry to have the cloak and Harry really needed it all the time. Furthermore, Harry needed the help of the resurrection stone to 1. ward off the dementors and 2. to gain the courage to sacrifice himself.
The fact that Harry got the elder wand and united the hallows was only "coincidence" - and lucky he was, because the curse would not have rebound without the wand. But would Harry have been able to defeat Voldemort otherwise? If Dumbledore's plan would have gone as intended? (no elder wand involved?) I think it would have worked out some other way, because the circumstances were all on Harry's side. All horcruxes gone, the whole wizarding world (centaurs, house elves etc.) on his side, plus the fact that everybody was protected by his sacrifice... well, we'll never know, we?
However, I was really happy with somebodys explanation that Harry not defending himself "has made all the difference" because thus voldemort didn't gain power over the elder wand. But if the wand was not Harrys in Dumbledore's plan, why did it then make all the difference?
OH! BRILLIANT! it just flicked into my mind. If harry had tried to defend himself, it wouldn't have been a real sacrifice! Would it?
Some people asked why the hallows showed up in the book in the first place if it wasn't the plan that Harry united them. I just think they are a final test! A test to show that Harry would not use the hallows to gain something for himself - that he is pure goodness, love, loyalty...
Harry, you wonderful boy, you brave, brave man!
Posted by pigwidgeon28 from Austria on September 10, 2007 02:17 AM
i totally share what you are confused about, because i've been reading everyone's comments everyday trying to get this answer about what dumbledore's plan really is in ensuring that harry can come alive and voldy can be defeated!
Posted by parnparn from hong kong on September 10, 2007 09:40 AM
I've been doing some more thinking about the original plan...but not enough as I'm still confused.
Harry can return from Kings Cross because of the two fold connection between himself and Voldemort...the fact that Voldemort has Harry's (and hence Lily's) blood in his veins is what tethers Harry to life while Voldemort lives...so he doesn't have to have the hallows to return as long as Voldemort is alive. Dumbledore guessed as much...hence the much mentioned gleam of triumph.
So, was the original plan to destroy all the horcruxes, including Nagini, and then confront Voldemort and sacrifice himself....BUT how to get rid of the piece of Voldemort's soul in himself without ing Voldemort (And thus severing Harry's tether to life) at the same time? If Harry hadn't been master of the elder wand surely the rebounding avada kedavra curse (rebounding because Harry ingly sacrifices himself in the same way Lily sacrificed herself for him) would have ed Voldemort...then how would Harry have returned from Kings Cross if Voldemort had d? My understanding is that the AV doesn't Voldemort because he uses the elder wand to cast it...and because he still has Nagini...have I got that right? It's so confusing. (Thought...Why doesn't Voldemort lose his body when the AV curse rebounds on him the first time round, like he did when he cursed Lily?) What would have happened if Harry hadn't been master of the elder wand when he went to Voldemort the first time?
As to the prophecy, I take your point Patty, the prophecy is instrumental in setting events in motion...Perhaps the prophecy actually "knew" how events would really turn out...i.e. it "knew" that Harry would gain the elder wand etc. A bit like in Prisoner of Azkaban when they go back in time, thinking they are changing things, but actually the time line depends on their going back in time...if you see what I mean...illustrated by Hermione finding the stone with the spiral on it in the pumpkin patch and throwing it through the window to warn Harry and the others that Dumbledore, Fudge and the executioner are on their way (I can't remember if this happened in the book as well as the movie, but it illustrates the point...people often try and change things to avoid a prophecy coming true and set the prophecy in motion by so doing). So the prophecy was prophesying events as they actually turned out...not as we thought they were going to turn out.
Posted by Joe from England on September 10, 2007 3:05 PM
pigwidgeon28: "The fact that Harry got the elder wand and united the hallows was only "coincidence", it was not coincidence! Why did Dumbledore gave Hermione the book, or the snitch to Harry? Dumbledore wanted Hermione to "delay" Harryīs knowledge of the hallows in order to be focused on the horrocruxes. But I think Dumbledore wanted to give Harry that knowledge because, as he said, Harry is much more selfless than he, and in consecuence much more wise to "have" the hallows, and please donīt forget that Dumbledore knew about Harryīs cloak.
We not know what was exactly the original plan, but we remember that Dumbledore didnīt want "to put all the eggs in one basket". In that order, he didnīt want Snape to know about the horcruxes, and Iīm quite sure that Snape didnīt know about the hallows either.
Dumbledore wanted Harry to learn and understand all the stuff by himself, the best way to ensure that Harry would sacryfice himself. And that sacryfice (to let be ed by Voldemort) would destroy his inner horcrux, for the greater good, although I agree with pigwidgeon28 that Dumbledore knew Harry would survive the AK curse because of the twofold connection; fortunately, that sacryfice protected hogwartians against Voldemort in the end.
And what saved Harry? Well, in the woods, the twofold connection, and of course, he was already the master. But itīs more confusing to me what happened in the great hall, although I think that the elder wand didnīt "want" to his master, and Hary used the expelliarmus because he knew it.
Oh, about parallels and foreshadows (although itīs from a movie): in PS movie, Snape found the trio talking inside about Snape wanting that stone. Alan Rickmanīs look! Amazing! as he was asking why they were there instead of being outside lookin to Harry, he changed his look because he discovered what they where thinking! He did that occlumancy stuff, well, I think so...
Finally, if a peace of Voldemort soul got into Harryīs when he was a baby, because his soul was so unstable, why didnīt happened this time at the last duel? Couldnīt a part of Voldemortīs soul got into someone else? (we have to wait to know it: "Harry Potter and the resurrection of the evilness")
Posted by Go Snape Go from my computer on September 10, 2007 3:17 PM
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