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Reader Comments: (Page 23)

Patty, I don't think that we can assume anything about the argument between Snape and Dumbledore. At this point it is still very unclear. However, I do assume Sanpe is good, and I assume that Dumbledore is very much in control of all events. It is very clear that when Dumbledore speaks, those in the Order listen (even Sirius did grudgingly) and follow obently.

In OoTP when Dumbledore covers for Harry and says that the Dumbledore's Army was his idea, etc. Fudge says that it is time for Dumbledore to turn himself in and be sent to Azkaban. At that point, Dumbledore explains that that is where Fudge is very much mistaken, that he (Dumbledore) is not coming easily, and that he could break out of Azkaban---but what a waste of time (sorry too tired to go upstairs to ge the book for actual quote) he's got more interesting things to do. Anyway, point is that unless Dumbledore wants to do anything, it is NOT happening. He then goes and stuns a handful of wizards within a flash, has a quick converstion with McGonagall and Harry, bursts into flames and vanishes with Fawkes.

So, back to the original thought---The whole thing (whether real of fake) had to be planned by Dumbledore with Snape. He's just too much in control. I just don't see it any other way.

Posted by Heather from NJ on February 17, 2007 6:25 PM

Asidi, which part of the book did you mean?
Draco has never done anything likable in any of the books, but I think there may be hope for him since he lowered his wand when facing Dumbledore. Stopping Draco from becoming a er may have been the best thing that happened on the tower that night.

Heather,
I think there was a plan which did not take into account Dumbledore's weakened condition after drinking the poison in the cave. Dumbledore would not have deprived Harry of his considerable knowledge and s just when Harry needs every weapon he can muster in the fight against Voldemort. The only reason I can come up with would be a sacrifice which would provide some protection to Harry, in the nature of Lily's sacrifice. But Dumbledore had already protected Harry by Freezing him under the cloak before Dumbledore was faced with . Harry was in no imminent danger when Dumbledore face Draco, the Eaters or Snape.
Also, Dumbledore always expected the best of everyone. Snape may be Harry's best protection against Voldemort (though Harry would never believe it), but Snape has a brilliant mind, very quick. He may not agree with the direction Dumbledore wanted to take. I think Snape has a higher position in the Order than the others, and because he is putting his neck on the line more than the others by directly interacting with Eaters, he may feel he can challenge Dumbledore's ideas and orders.

Posted by Patty from Quincy Massachusetts on February 18, 2007 05:55 AM

Patty, I can only speak for myself, but...from reading all the posts and being part of the discussion for the past few months, I believe that most of us who are in the "Snape is good" camp, would include the fact that Snape is "good" because he is loyal to Dumbledore and the Order.

Your theory just does not fit with this. I'm not really sure if you ultimately feel that snape is good or bad. I find it hard to see a Snape with good intentions for Harry, while completely disregarding Dumbldore--it just doesn't fit. In fact, it only seem to work for Snape to have Harry's best interest at heart BECAUSE Snape is true to Dumbledore.

Posted by Heather from NJ on February 18, 2007 6:15 PM

Heather,
I firmly believe Snape is on the side of good and would to bring down Voldemort. However I also feel he is very conflicted in his feeling toward Harry, and in his obence toward Dumbledore. Dumbledore always allows people latitude to make their own choices and decisions. He keeps a watchful eye on Harry throughout the series but allows him to take risks at the same time.
While I believe Snape to be working for Dumbledore, he might feel he has better ideas as to how to work against Voldemort. He might not like some of the tasks he has been asked to do, he actively dislikes Harry, he is on the front line improvising as he spies. JKR does not invent two dimensional characters and I really think Snape play a huge role in the final book, which merits a fully developed character with lots of shades of gray. We still don't know much about him before book 1 or of his clandestine activities during the series.
I think he was working for Dumbledore before Trelawney spoke the prophecy. I also think Snape may have heard the whole prophecy. Trelawney was unaware she spoke the prophecy. She was not mentally present during the prophecy, and yet she fully remembers the arrival of Snape. I believe he heard the whole prophecy, and then was confronted by barman. Why then did he only tell Voldemort half the prophecy? I have come to believe that Dumbledore ordered him to.
Dumbledore knew Voldemort was growing more powerful, and here was Trelawney's prophecy handing him a weapon to vanquish the Dark Lord. So, to precipitate the downfall of Voldemort, Dumbledore made the difficult decision to endanger two wizarding families, to the possible benefit of the rest of the population. But he did not hand it all to Voldemort. He only let Snape pass on half the prophecy, a loaded gun which was rigged to blow up in Voldemort's face when he tried to use it.
Dumbledore knew the boy would survive to be marked as Voldemort's equal and would have power the Dark Lord knows not, but Voldemort missed that important detail.
I think Snape would have disagreed with Dumbledore that he should tell any part of the prophecy, but went along anyway.
Maybe he thinks Dumbledore takes bigger risks than he should. But I think he recognises what a world under the rule of Voldemort would be like, and is working against that.
I don't think Snape disregards what Dumbledore wants, I think he may think he knows better. There may have been a plan to fake Dumbledore's , that ultimately resulted in his real because of his weakened condition. Snape loyally went along with Dumbledore's plan and Dumbledore d.

Posted by Patty from Quincy,Massachusetts on February 19, 2007 4:10 PM

Very important clue that Snape is on the good side (I don't know if it's already been mentioned): Fawkes!

Whenever Harry's name is mentioned in Fawkes' presence, the phoenix makes a noise. This is because Harry is loyal to Dumbledore as we know ever since Chamber of Secrets. The only other person's name Fawkes makes the noise for is surprisingly Snape. When Harry finds out that Snape was the one who overheard the prophecy he runs to Dumbledore's office and starts yelling at him. When he shouts the name 'Snape', Fawkes makes a noise, which might indicate that Snape is loyal to Dumbledore.

On the other hand, Dumbledore owes Snape a life (like Pettigrew owes Harry) becuase Snape saved Dumbledore from the curse of Slytherin's ring. Dumbledore must have known about the Unbreakable Vow and if it was broken, Snape would . This is why Dumbledore sacrificed his own life for Snape (possibility)! Because of the life .

Posted by Javed from Vancouver, Canada on February 19, 2007 7:30 PM

Patty,

We are close here somewhat.

I think that Dumbledore conspired to let Snape only hear half of the prophecy, by using a time turner. I think it was part of a greater plan that Dumbledore had, to sacrifice the lives of a few, to save the world.

I think that Snape leaked the half that he heard, as Dumbledore expected, while he was still a whole hearted Eater, but that when he realized that Voldermort would Lily and James, he really was remorseful and switched sides over it, I don't think he was faking the remorse at all, Dumbledore believed Snape because he was telling the truth, he wanted to make amends, by returning to Dumbledore, (because I think he probably loved Lily, and plus he owed a life to James), he spent all of these years risking his own life being a double agent, taking care of Harry to make amends, carrying the guilt that he caused their s, he and he alone, not realizing that Dumbledore had in fact intended this all along.

I think that Wormtail was also working as a spy for Dumbledore. All along. I do not think that Snape put it all together until the beginning of HBP, when he and Wormtail are in close quarters, for possibly the first time, and Wormtail probably said something that got Snape to thinking about it all, Possibly during the time that he is saving Dumbledore's life, after Dumbledore destroyed the ring horcrux, Dumbledore said something that confirmed it all, Snape put 2 and 2 together, and I think this so angered Snape that he decided that Voldermort AND Dumbledore, that both needed to go, and he was just the guy to rid the world of them both. I think he figures he can do a better job of running the world.

I think that Snape cast that AK curse really meaning to Dumbledore, as Bellatrix said must be the case, you must mean it. But I think he might have ed wormtail, who was posing as Dumbledore, instead... HA

Posted by karen from Texas on February 19, 2007 9:32 PM

Karen,
I have been thinking a lot about Wormtail's loyalties. You bring up good points. I recently re-read JKR's FAQ poll question, about Secret Keepers. Her answer clearly states that the only people who ever knew the Potters' location were people that Wormtail told directly. This means Dumbledore,Sirius and Voldemort were told by Wormtail. If Wormtail was the traitor we all think he is, why did he tell Dumbledore the location. Also, Wormtail tried very hard to get Voldemort to use another enemy for the graveyard rebirth, instead of Harry's blood.
But who was the traitor that Dumbledore suspected when the Potters were choosing a Secret Keeper if it wasn't Wormtail?
I tend to believe that it really was Dumbledore on the tower at the end of HBP, and that he is really . I believe there was some exchange via Legilimency between Dumbledore and Snape before Snape ed him.

Posted by Patty from Quincy,Massachusetts on February 20, 2007 05:39 AM

At the end of this article, a sorcerers stone is mentioned. Could it be that Dumbledore had a stone, but couldn't becaus of it? Maybe he really was only part , and the pheonix tears brought him back to life.

Posted by Kat from West Virginia on February 21, 2007 10:57 AM

Snape is obviously very important. More so than we currently know. To highlight this; when the first book was made into film, JKR didn't care about any of the actors apart from who should play one particular part... You guessed it - Snape. Is this because he is her fav? until now we haven't really got to know Snape even though he has played a significant part in every book. Not even the teachers at Hogwarts really know him. When asked about Snape they just say "Dumbledore trusts him"... They have been working with him every day for years and that's the best they can come up with? There's a lot more to come. We get to know Snape a lot better in the final book.

Posted by David from Suffolk on February 24, 2007 10:48 AM

hmmm while reading the book... i think i found a clue that actually made me think that Snape was not at all evil... i do not have the book anywhere near me at the moment so i cannot give the exact quote, but when Harry is chasing Snape, Snape lets Malfoy escape and then Harry blames Snape for his parents , Snaps says something like "Don't call me a (hesitates) coward!" i believe that Snape would have said something else there but he couldnt risk all the eaters overhearing him. Personally, I believe he is the most complex and interesting character in the series.

Posted by Ruben from Marlboro, NJ on February 26, 2007 07:10 AM

the whole snape and lilly thing fits with that BUT it cant be lillys that turns him. he turns before her (GoF).

Posted by jill on February 26, 2007 12:21 PM

Patty: wormtail could not have told dumbledore the location of the potters as dumbledore states that he gave evidence saying sirius was the secret keeper and as far as im aware even if you've been told by the secret keeper you can't tell anyone

Posted by shelley on February 27, 2007 11:40 AM

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