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by David Haber
On August 2, 2006, at the second night of the Harry, Carrie, and Garp event at Radio City Music Hall in New York City, J.K. Rowling says Dumbledore is . But is that the whole story? How does what J.K. has said relate to all of the clues and theories on this site?
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Reader Comments: (Page 29)
Heather, I think you bring up an excellent idea with the green liquid. Also, both tubs of green liquid were holding something, did you notice that? The one in the Ministry was holding the brains, and the one in the cave was holding the fake Horcrux. I think that the green liquid in the Ministry could be the same potion that was protecting the Horcrux.
But anyway, I think that Dumbledore saves Harry's neck surprisingly often and its gonna be a shocker if Dumbledore doesnt come back to pull Voldemort off Harry.
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on February 26, 2007 1:47 PM
I have a question about when Dumbledore drinks the potion in the cave...notice what he is crying out when he drinks it?
Quote from HBP Page 572---"And obently, Dumbeldore drank, as though it was an antidote Harry offered him, but upon draining the goblet, he sank to his knees, shaking uncontrollably. "It's all my fault, all my fault, oh please make it stop and I'll never, never again.." then Harry makes him drink more and he says,"Don't hurt them, don't hurt them, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead..."
What is his fault? Who is them? Could the potion he drank make him relive his worst memory? Could Dumbledore have been there when James and Lily were ed? Any thought
Posted by Jennie from Beachwood NJ on February 26, 2007 3:24 PM
I don't think Dumbledore's exclamations in the cave refer to Lily and James, their s were too quickly over. It seems to me Dumbledore was reliving a situation where someone was suffering for a period of time. I have thought it was from a younger time in Dumbledore's experience where he made a serious mistake costing someone their life, and he has lived with that remorse since then.
Posted by Patty from Quincy,Massachusetts on February 27, 2007 7:01 PM
Heather, great catch on the green liquid and the brain.
It says the brain came toward Ron, spinning, and that what looked like ribbons of moving images flew from it, unraveling like ribbons of thought, and that Harry didn't want to know what would happen if Ron touched one of the tenticles of thought.
Then of course Ron touched one, and said something like, "No No, I don't like it, no stop stop." This is similar a lot to what Dumbledore says after drinking the potion. We do not get to hear more of what Ron says though.
When Ron is still in the hospital, it says that there were still welts where the brains tenticles had wrapped around him, according to Madam Pomfrey, thoughts could leave deeper scarring than almost anything else....
So maybe the green potion had nothing to do with Dumbledore's life at all, maybe it was like liquid nightmares. A long shot I know.
I also wonder what if the water in the cave is really Draught of the Living . We aren't told how long it takes to for Draught of the Living to work.
Posted by karen from Texas on February 28, 2007 05:32 AM
Karen, yes I too thought that what Ron and Dumbledore say are very similar in the way the sound, regarding the green liquid. But they are not exact, so I don't know where that leaves us.
Did Dumbledore actually drink that water from the cave? I didn't get that feeling. Harry poured it over his face, but it doesn't say that Dumbledore actually drank it. I just think that the water in the cave lake was significant because the drinker of the potion in the goblet becomes thirsty, he/she touches the lake water attempting to drink it, and the inferi are mobilized. That's how I read it. Anybody else?
Posted by Heather from NJ on February 28, 2007 09:19 AM
I'm re-reading HBP right now (and freaking out when anyone else touches my copy). Im still in the beginning but i do remember it saying:
"Dumbledore DRANK the potion like a child of thirst, but shreiked with..." something like that
So yes, Dumbledore did in fact drink the potion. I just dont agree that the potion was poisonous, because Dumbledore didnt "" until they were on the North Tower.
But maybe this helps the Phoenix Theory (how sad.. it has a name now). Can phoenix tears be an antidote for poisons as well as flesh wounds? Do poisons count as injuries for healing powers? Because Dumbledore was crying when he was drinking that potion; perhaps the tears were an antidote.
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on February 28, 2007 1:38 PM
I have reread the passage in HBP where they are making the Draught of the Living in the first lesson with Slughorn, and it isn't green, BUT I am not convinvced that they finished making it, Slughorn just said whomever had gotten along the fastest, and most accurate would win. Harry won with a pale pink potion, but easily that could not have been complete Draught of the Living .
Also I noticed that after Dumbledore drank the potion in the basin, he seemed asleap or actually he seemed , until Harry did the Rennervate charm.
I am wondering if Harry had not been there to do that, if Dumbledore would have woke up. Dumbledore did drink water from the lake, but he would not have done so had he remained asleap.
Remember that Dumbledore said that Voldemort would not have wanted the intruder to quickly, he would have wanted to question them first. This would fit. Because of the boat only carrying one Wizard, Voldemort would not expect anyone to be there to use Rennervate. Without Harry there, he could have walked in, found a sleeping Dumbledore and not given him a drink of water until he revealed how he had found the place...
We do not know how long the Draught of the Living last of course, or how often Voldemort might check his Horcruxes. Or how long a Rennervate might keep a person awake for that matter.
Maybe they wanted the Brain in the Ministry of Magic to stay asleap:)
Posted by karen from texas on February 28, 2007 5:19 PM
When I first read the cave scene in H.B.P. I thought that the cave was in fact a memorial to the boy Tom Riddle; that Voldemort wanted to preserve the memory of the fear that he instilled from all he tortured there. So Dumbledore's cries were the memories of Voldemort's victims.
I pose this to you all because it's hard for me to accept that Voldemort's enchantment would bring Dumbledore to his knees, bringing out such monumental regret.
Ashley, we do know that Phoenix tears were an antidote at least for the poison that infected Harry from to the basillisk bite.
Posted by mikey from New Jersey on February 28, 2007 5:42 PM
Ashley, we are talking about two different things. Yes, Dumbledore did drink the potion form the goblet. We all know that he did that, and we are not debating that point.
Karen and I were discussing whether or not he drank the water from the lake, which Karen thought was the Draught of Living . I was noting that Harry poured the water from the lake over Dumbldedore's face, but it did not specifically state that Dumbledore drank the lake water. Hope that clears that up. Any thougths about the lake water?
As to why Dumbledore did not immediately upon drinking the potion from the goblet---maybe dumbledore had swallowed a bezoar just before his journey. Isn't that the cure for almost all poisons?
Posted by Heather from NJ on February 28, 2007 6:06 PM
Mikey, I thought the same thing at first, but on thinking further, it seems more like the cries of someone responsible for suffering, rather than those who suffered. It makes me wonder what experiences of Dumbledore's caused such remorse and guilt. I am sure also, that the poison would intensify the pangs of guilt to dissuade the person from continuing to drink.
Ashley and Mikey,
Earlier in the book, Hermione comments "There are some potions with no antidotes." Just one of those casual comments the characters make once in a while, which have more meaning later on.
Posted by Patty from Quincy,Massachusetts on March 2, 2007 10:49 AM
Patty, interesting theory on Dumbledore. Dumbledore even admits that he put Harry in a very dangerous situation in GoF. I know no one seems to agree, but I wonder if he was using James and Lily for bait and they got ed under his watch? If not, I wonder who he could he be crying about? Or could the potion have possibly made DD experience a future event? Or maybe like the Boggarts, you see something you are terribly afraid of...
Posted by Jennie from Beachwood NJ on March 2, 2007 1:42 PM
On other threads I have mentioned that exact theory, that Dumbledore knowingly put the Potters in the path of Voldemort, using Snape as his informant, in order to bring about his downfall.
Posted by Patty from Quincy MA on March 3, 2007 06:10 AM
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