Beyond Hogwarts

Search Beyond Hogwarts:

Reference Desk:
Beyond Hogwarts FAQ
Wizard to Muggle Currency Converter
Harry Potter Spelling Reference

New Revelations

by David Haber

On August 2, 2006, at the second night of the Harry, Carrie, and Garp event at Radio City Music Hall in New York City, J.K. Rowling says Dumbledore is . But is that the whole story? How does what J.K. has said relate to all of the clues and theories on this site?

> Read the full article

Pages:  <<  <  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ...  >  >>

Reader Comments: (Page 18)

I think the final horcrux is not Harry himself, but Harry's scar. Indeed, Trelawney's prophecy says "the Dark Lord mark him as his equal", not "he be marked as the Dark Lord's equal". This suggests Harry's mark was not accidental, but intentionally made by Voldemort. Why would Voldemort perform a living Horcrux? There is at least one reason: this way, Voldemort can reincarnate into someone much younger (think about AE Van Vogt's "World of non-A", in which Lavoisseur tries to transfer his mind into successive bos), and gets virtual immortality in doing this. Immortality is Voldemort's final quest (cf the philosopher's stone). Hearing the prophecy has urged Voldemort to do so as soon as possible, and the choice for Harry gets away the threaten. At the time, Voldemrort gets the opportunity thanks to Pettygrew's treasion. After he has ed James and Lily, he performs his horcrux, then he just has to make his own body to disappear and take possession of Harry's body (he become a baby exactly as the phoenix does when he becomes a newborn bird). Who would suspect a young child, born from James and Lily Potter, to be full of Voldemort's evil soul? By doing this, Voldemort would also take advantage from Harry's hereditary abilities. Nevertheless, Harry has the power of love, that Voldemort "knows not", and Voldemort fails to integrate Harry's body. His soul survives, but has no more body to incarnate, until someone performs one of his previous horcruxes. Again, at the end of book 5, in the Ministery of Magic, Voldemort seems to be very close to integrating Harry's body. Dumbledore looks frightened and Harry's scar opens. But again, something stops the process (A spell from Dumbledore? Or can we imagine that Sirius' sacrifice in front of Bellatrix might have helped Harry in some way, so that Sirius' would be meaningful? Anyway, Voldemort fails again.

Let me add another personal conviction: from the beginning, Harry's scar is quoted as being "lightning-bolt"; this might be red herring: the scar rather looks like a snake, Voldemort's mark.

Speaking of Dumbledore, if we accept that he has intentionaly d, then we must (and so does Jo) answer at least three questions
How can Harry get further help from Dumbledore?
To which extend, and by what mean, is Dumbledore's useful at that time?
Why did Dumbledore accept ?

I have no idea for the first two (someone may help?) but it seems to me that Dumbledore's was, anyway, to come very next: in book 1, Dumbledore answers Harry about Flamel's decision to get rid of the philosopher's stone. Flamel is a friend of Dumbledore's, and Dumbledore is getting much too old (150 years old according to some sources) to be still alive without help: he was probably himself drinking long life elixir. When asked by Harry, Dumbledore says that Flamel kept enough potion to "set his affairs in order". Obviously, so did Dumbledore. We can imagine that, having drunk the last drop of elixir, he grew older and older, as it is mentionned in book 6. And by the end of book 6, his affairs apparently are in order (maybe because he found a way of getting rid of all the horcruxes, except Harry's scar).

Maybe a last suggestion: Dumbledore's power includes his magical abilities, and also his knowledge. Harry has strong abilities aginst Dark Arts, and he get knoledge from Dumbledore, through his portraits, as soon as he be able to close his mind to Voldemort. Who then teach Occlumency to Harry, now that Rogue is out (even if I think that Rogue is innocent, how could Harry trust him any more).

Posted by herve from strasbourg, france on January 2, 2007 03:52 AM

herve,you have got some interesting theories but i have to say some of it just doesn't seem right, like how harry communicate with dumbledores portrait if he is not going back to hogwarts? or the bit about the scar, i mean if you read the books again you see the the scar was from the curse that voldermort intended to harry with, he has tried to him since and therefore would not want to his own soul after going through the trouble to become immortal. also we know he treasures his immortality he would not leave a piece of it in another person, (as he is a loner), if he himself cant posses harrys body then i dont think a piece of his soul could be near harry let alone in him especially because the of "love" in harry. he only used nagini because he needs to protect the parts of his soul, and he has an extraordinary amount of control over the snake.

Posted by beki from liverpool, england on January 2, 2007 11:06 AM

Herve, I was just about to post the same thing about Harry's scar when I saw yours. I just read somebody's version of what they think the 7th book be like, tha evolved out of a contest entry. This theory was presented at the ending, and I can't help but wonder that maybe they're on to something. Maybe when the ing curse went wrong, it somehow messed up and made his scar into a horcrux. He did just 2 people, ripping his soul twice right before he attempts a 3rd.

Posted by Taryn from Warwick on January 2, 2007 5:48 PM

After reading through your site and extensive lists of comments from other fans, I still think at worst Snape was carrying out plans to Dumbledore. At best, Dumbledore is alive. The reason I think he's still alive: Obviously the facts that you presented on your website, but more importantly, JK Rowling's statement on Dumbledore being . When asked that question, she had three choices: say he's , no comment, or say he's alive. She has to answer he's ! If she declines to comment, then that speculates there is more than meets the eye, which ruins the setup of the whole chapter of his "!" If he ends up being alive, JK acknowledge her lie based on the fact that she can't give away secrets in the next book and has to answer as if she only knows up to the 7th book!

Furthermore, another interesting plot line is going on the Polyjuice Potion route. What if Fleming, a friend of Dumbledore, took the potion to become Dumbledore? Thus, if Snape really used the ing curse, it would be on Fleming, who was going to anyway! Obviously, I doubt Snape actually ed anyone based on the flying "ing curse" and what not, but just an idea.

Hopefully we see progress indicated by Rowling sometime soon. I don't think I can wait until summer 2008 for the next book..

Posted by kb from Mooresville, NC on January 3, 2007 07:56 AM

I know that considering Harry's scar as a horcrux is contradictory to some of the statements of the series, and particularly the one that says Harry's scar appeared accidentally when he reacted to Voldemort's curse. But who tells us what happened? Riddle in some way in CoS (he confirms that Lily saved Harry). Dumbledore and Hagrid, especially in PS. But we have no hint that Dumbledore was a personal whitness and we can obviously suppose that he was not. Dumbledore must have guessed everything after what he saw. Wormtail, who might have been a whitness, doesn't reveal anything, except (in OoP) that he was a spy for Voldemort.

But more surprising is the effect of the Priori Incantum in GoF. If Voldemort had tried to Harry with his wand, the curse should appear before Lily and James. If the curse really ed his body, then Riddle should appear out of his wand. I can see only four explanations to this: my memory fails (I don't have GoF with me), Jo made a mistake (I would not bet anything on this, she is too clever and careful), Voldemort performed a curse with somebody else's wand (but why?), someone else performed the curse instead of Voldemort.

In that last case, we can of course think of Pettigrew. He had instructions to Voldemort (see the parallel with Snape and Dumbledore), then rip Voldemort's soul into Harry's body through a Horcrux (the scar), and Voldemort would revive as Harry (the parallel stops here). Maybe Lily was asked to grow up Harry/Voldemort as her own child, under the control of Pettigrew, and she refused. That would explain why he ed her even if (as Jo said) he didn't want first.

We also see that Voldemort treats Pettigrew like mud (GoF), maybe because he failed.

Why does Voldemort want to Harry now? If his scar gets part of his soul, this makes sense. ing Harry does not mean ing his soul, because the scar would be safe (this would not be true if Harry was entirely a Horcrux) and Voldemort could get it back.

Moreover, Dumbledore says in PS that he cannot remove Harry's scar (even if he wanted to). This means that the scar has deep magical properties.

I'm sure there be portraits for Dumbledore elsewhere than in Hogwarts. I would guess that if Harry does not go back to Hogwarts, he might go there anyway from time to time (for instance to see Hermione, Ron, Ginny and Hagrid), and if he stays in Grimmaurt Place, he would probably pay for a portrait of Dumbledore (or someone would offer him). Also, he might offer one to the Weasleys for Christmas or something.

Posted by herve from strasbourg, france on January 3, 2007 08:20 AM

im not sure what to make of all this harry is the last horcrux thing, i mean would jk make it so that this story, adored by millions of kids, would contain a hero with something so evil in him, come to that who s, it just doesnt seem her style. i reckon shes give u all a very good red herring. and think the crucial things to voldermort's destruction be love, the brother wands, snape and wormtail.

Posted by beki from liverpool, england on January 3, 2007 09:48 AM

This is great! This site gives me hope. I thought it was enough that Sirius d, and when Dumbledore d, well. That was just enough for me. But, I just have to say one more thing. Many of you has this theories, that Harry is a horcrux. Well, if he is, I'll be very shocked! I love Harry, and if Rowling s him, I'll loose a bit of my heart. But, again.. Nice work with the site!

Posted by Caroline from England on January 6, 2007 5:00 PM

Okay...I can see that you have worked very much. Great that somebody has time to study and investigate all these different clues and riddles in the books. I have myself too thought all kinds of theories about Dumbledore and his but nothing as brilliant as this. Good work. Personally I think that Dumbledore is , BUT not completely. He might be something spritual person not or live so that he can look out for Harry....We see. Anyway I think that Albus Dumbledore hasn`t said his last word yet.:)

Posted by Maximus from Kuusamo, Finland on January 6, 2007 8:11 PM

I was intrigued by your comments on January 3, this being if Dumbledore revealed the whole story to Harry about the PROPHECY.

You called attention to certain events concerning Neville Longbottom. While reading OotP for the first time, the thought invaded my brain what if Neville WAS �the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord?

Till then it appeared as if Neville could end up just like Peter Pettigrew. Listening to Professor McGonagall in PoA, quote from PoA the Marauder�s Map, �Hero-worshipped Black and Potter - never quite in their league, talent-wise�, sounded uncanny like a description of Neville.

Why show us in the beginning of the HP books a helpless, forgetting, stuttering boy who is always in search of his toad? Since �Order of the Phoenix� we have a different mental attitude towards him, thanks to Dumbledore explanation�s to Harry about the Prophecy. Some have pondered Neville could be under a� Memory Charm�, according to being a witness of the torture of his parents Alice and Frank. If, in fairness we can believe that a fifteen months old baby could have such a capacity for remembering!

Might it be possible that Neville is in reality the �CHOSEN ONE�? Is the only reason Neville is continually getting stronger a coincident or is there more to it? Could the Memory Charm be slowly wearing of? While visiting Arthur Weasley in St. Mungo�s Hospital, Harry, Ron and Hermione encounter Gilderoy Lockhart. Their former DADA teacher, who has been hit by a �Memory Charm� who backfired, seems to have glimpses of recognition of his memory,

When Harry and his friends in OotP, Chapter Thirty-Four �The Department of Mystery�, stand in front of the shelf, looking at the glass-orb, containing the Prophecy, they find an inscription: S.P.T. to A.P.W.B.D. Dark Lord and (?) Harry Potter.

Why put that INTEROGATION MARK? Dumbledore told Harry: Quote� The official record was re-labelled after Voldemort�s attack on you as a child�. He didn�t say whose name, the keeper of the hall of Prophecy had put there in the first place��We know (are we absolutely sure?) that Dumbledore never lied to Harry but also that he chose his words very carefully, in what he thought would not hurt or disturb Harry.

The Longbottom�s, before they were tortured into insanity, had already trice defied the Dark Lord. We assume that this happened because of the Prophecy Snape overheard and went blabbering, while spying for his �Master�.
Did Neville�s uncle Algernon know of this and was it the reason he went to such drastic means as dropping Neville almost out of the window, not knowing that Neville was under the Memory Charm?

Is it not so; after LV �fall� none of his Eater had felt the DARK MARK anymore, for the DE an unmistakable sign that he had gone for ever! Otherwise Snape would not have told Bellatrix in HBP Spinner�s End: �The Dark Mark had been growing stronger for months, I knew he must be about to return, all the Eaters knew!� Another example for the DM getting stronger was the scene with Igor Karkaroff in GoF, showing his mark to Snape.

I have come to the conclusion that Bellatrix Lestrange, must have known of Voldemort�s Horcrux/es, thus him being still alive. Why else did she obstinately believe, that Neville�s parents knew that Voldemort was still alive and his whereabouts?
But I digress; I wholly agree with Chris that shy and clumsy Neville surprise us in Book Seven and he could in earnest be �The Chosen� one! Reading between the lines, it would not be Lord Voldemort�s first mistake. Did he not underestimate Lily Potter? I am most interested what you all think about this?

Posted by Mistral from Switzerland on January 7, 2007 06:44 AM

Around the time book three or four came out, someone asked "Why do some people become ghosts when they while others just..."
J.K. replied with one sentence:
"You'll find that out in book seven."
Is Dumbledore a ghost? Who knows!? It's just something to ponder...

Posted by Joe from Moscow, Idaho on January 8, 2007 02:09 AM

Nealry Headless Nick says that the reason he desided to become a ghost was that he was affraid to "move on".
Dumbledore stated in CoS that to the well organised mind, was simply another journey, or something to that effect.
I doubt that he would choose to become a ghost.
It still remains to be seen just how helpful his portrait can be..

Posted by Kevin from Wisconsin on January 8, 2007 07:00 AM

On Dumbledore not pulling a Gandalf:
Albus means white in latin
Gandalf comes back as Gandalf the white

Posted by Ani from Melbourne Australi on January 8, 2007 3:21 PM

Pages:  <<  <  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ...  >  >>

Featured Discussions | The Septology | Harry's World | Harry Potter Movies | Dumbeldore Is Not Dead | FAQ is not affiliated with or approved by
Scholastic Books, Bloomsbury, Warner Bros., or J.K. Rowling
Original Content Copyright © 2006-2010 David Haber, All Rights Reserved