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Magic at its deepest, its most impenetrable
by David Haber
At the end of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Dumbledore describes the life that Peter Pettigrew owes Harry as "magic at its deepest, it's most impenetrable". But who else the in Harry Potter books might owe Harry a life ? And are life and Unbreakable Vows related?
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Reader Comments: (Page 15)
A lot of people have mentioned that pettigrew save harry from greyback because of his silver hand. Can someone explain this to me? how does that work?
On the same topic I like this seen more pettigrew and greyback are teamed up by voldy for some mission. Now if we look at the UK childrens cover there is a full moon at hogwarts. So pettigrew and greyback show up at hogwarts on the full moon, but its still early in the night or the moons behind a cloud or something. So pettigrew and greyback are confronted by lupin and someone else (I like to put tonks here) the 2 teams have a magical duel, tonks is knocked unconscious (or atleast unable to fight), the moon comes out, greyback and lupin transform, they have a werewolf duel (imagine how this would look in the movies, its pretty cool), pettigrew wimps out and hides or runs, maybe tonks with him because lupin told her to or something, but they hide close enough to watch, finally greyback is about to lupin when pettigrew saves his old friend with the silver hand (again someone explain this to me). My idea works better if tonks was indeed knocked unconscious. I think peters life to harry be repaid another way.
Posted by E from Portland, ME on April 8, 2007 07:06 AM
E from Portland ME
I think the silver of the hand is the operative weapon here, as lore has it that a silver bullet is the only thing which can a werewolf. I'm not convinced of the silver hand thing though. I think Bill and Lupin are more likely adversaries of Greyback.
I think Pettigrew's life to Harry come into play more along the lines of his original hand being used, along with Harry's blood, in the rebirth of Voldemort.
Voldemort is unaware of the life , as far as we know, but now his blood is from Harry, and his flesh if from an agent who owes Harry a life . The final element, bone from the father, is from his Muggle parent, not the witch who abandoned him by at the beginning of his life.
I think Voldemort made a critical error when he chose the elements to use in the making of his new body.
Posted by Patty from Quincy MA on April 9, 2007 09:25 AM
E from Portland,
Peter Petigrew ows Harry a life . On GOF Petigrew tries to dissuade The Dark Lord of using Harry for his "Comeback", which obviously Voldemort was set on, and carried out. Voldemort gave Petigrew a SILVER hand after he brought him back.
Silver can Harm and/or Warewolfs.
There must be an all out confrontation between Eaters and The Order of the Phoenix, lead by Voldy and Harry, respectively, and it just might be at Hogwarts. As Grayback likes to attack children, he would not miss the opportunity to visit Hogwarts again, and try to turn or as many as possible.
It is here that I place Harry, in the great fight, he might be fighting several Eaters at the same time, and winning the battle and here comes Grayback stealthily behind Harry.
As we know, Petigrew always backs the biggest bully of the playground, and can see that Harry and his gang just might win this time, so taking that into consideration, alongside the Life , It is here where he act and attack Grayback with his wand, but as Grayback is very fast, he jump ontop of Petigrew and Peter then use his hands to fend for himself and Fenrir, maybe being ing in the process, as well as paying back his .
Posted by Emilio from Mexico City, Mexico on April 9, 2007 09:51 AM
In response to emilio's answer to my question. I doubt that voldy would launch a full scale attack on hogwarts (either because its too big a risk or because he sees no need to with dumbeldore ) I think a more guerilia mission of no larger then the first attack is more likely.
Patty, I read your response and I think your probably right, that it be bill and lupin who greyback.
I can't help but think that theres a reason for both lupin and tonks falling in love and bill and fleur, we should all know by now that there are no coincidences and everything happens for a reason.
Posted by E from Portland, ME on April 9, 2007 3:32 PM
I certainly think, snape owes life for harry. Snape had saved harry against Quirrell's Jinx on broom. (Which he tried but it was Hermoine's fire spell that saved Harry) But he didn't stop it with that.
He had always watched harry, which appeared to us as suspicious look as he mentioned in HBP to Bellatrix that he tried to have Harry expelled from Hogwarts, which explains that he had a life- to save Harry.
Even in PoA when Snape confronts Sirius, he mentions that he came after him. But my guess was, he came after both Sirius and Harry. To save Harry from Sirius and to have Sirius caught.
Again in OoP snape was the one who informed about Harry's venture to save sirius to Dumbledore.
Even in HBP, after ing Dumbledore Harry chases Snape. He tries all sort of spells on snape who dodges them; but it was very surprising that he didn't try using any spell against Harry; For one who is capable of ing dumbledore, stunning harry or making him unconscious is not a great deal. He could have done that and taken harry with him to Voldemort.(If he thinks, harry is only for voldemort to ). But he didn't! not only that, he also stopped other eaters to or injure Harry, mentioning that he's only for voldemort to .
Isn't obvious that snape was perfectly executing what he and dumbledore had planned earlier, to save Harry?
I presume that in 'ly Hallows' Snape might be indirectly helping Harry to find Horcrux and to destroy them, as we know that no one knows about Black Magic better than Snape, except for Voldemort!
Posted by Praveen from Atlanta, GA on April 10, 2007 1:04 PM
Praveen from Atlanta,
I'm not sure that Dumbledore confided on Snape about the Horcruxes, even though Albus did go to Severus after being injured while destroying the Horcux in the ring.
But completely agree with you on Snape's plan with Dumbledore, if you reed carefully you notice that even when he is running away from Harry Severus is still teaching him, in a way, he is showing Harry that he is too open, and says something like "When are you going to learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed?"
This tells me that he is telling Harry that he has to master non verbal spells and that it is impossible to defeat Voldemort (or other Legimens) if he doesn't learn to use Oclumency.
I think this be something that Harry practice until he masters the art of Oclumency (and maybe even Legimency) as well as non-verbal spells.
I hope that it is Neville who defeats Bellatrix.
Posted by Emilio from Mexico City, Mexico on April 10, 2007 3:44 PM
At the begining of Gof, Voldemort tells Pettigrew that (paraphrased) "only one more , and the way to Harry would be clear". Harry hears this (in his dream) and assumes that Voldemort is going to him. This is true...but who is the "one more " that clears the way to Harry? I assume it's Dumbledore, if so, then either Snape is doing what Voldemort wanted all along or that Snape and Dumbledore faked it to make Voldemort think he has a clear path to Harry!
Posted by Sharon from Michigan on April 16, 2007 1:03 PM
While this is a well thought out theory, I feel that it may be too well thought out. I'm sorry, but I think you're playing too hard on events untold. I like to go literal. My opinion is that Snape ed Dumbledore, and Dumbledore is permanantly . Also, since Snape ed Dumbledore, Snape would've d had they made an unbreakable vow.
Posted by George from Newtown, Connecticut on April 16, 2007 2:31 PM
I'm not seeing the logic of "If Snape and Dumbledore had made an Unbreakable Vow, Snape would have d."
What happens when this is the wording of the Unbreakable Vow:
"Do you swear to always honor and uphold the side against the Dark Order?
"Do you swear that you never again return to the Dark Order, unless upon command from me?
"Do you swear that you obey any order I give you regarding the uphold of the good side?
"Do you swear that you fight for the downfall of the Dark Order?"
If Dumbledore told Snape to him, Snape would have to, because the Unbreakable Vow would have said to "obey any order Dumbledore gives him".
What about Barty Crouch Sr.? He was a judge of the Triwizard Tournament, and also a high ranking Ministry official. If Voldemort ed him, then the way to Harry Potter would have been clear as well.
Remember, a.) Snape doesn't return to Voldemort on Dumbledore's orders until the end of GoF. b.) Snape s Dumbledore in HBP, two years after the graveyard scene.
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on April 16, 2007 6:18 PM
Ashley, I agree with you that Barty Crouch Sr was the one Voldemort was referring to with the "one more " comment. Not only was he a judge and high-ranking Ministry official, but he knew about Barty Jr's continued existence, and Voldemort needed Barty Jr in order to carry out his plan for using Harry's blood in the rebirthing potion. Voldemort had no intention of letting Harry live that night, thus, he would not have known at that time that ing Albus would be needed to get to Harry.
Regarding Severus, he would have Bellatrix believe that he waited to join Voldemort because that could ensure Severus' continued function as spy for the Eaters. While I believe this is a fabrication he told her to quell suspicion, it leaves the possibility open that he was not lying to Bellatrix (and Narcissa) and that his late return was rather to fool Albus rather than Voldemort.
Albus is a trusting person. I don't think he would resort to what equates to a threat in order to make Severus trustworthy. Albus is also no fool. I believe he has a different iron-clad reason for trusting Severus. I have no idea what that is (I'm totally dissatisfied with his explanation to Harry), there are too many enigmatic clues to filter through, and I'm patient enough to wait until July to find out:-). Also, if he had made an Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa that contradicted what Albus' alleged Vow had stated, what would have happened then? He had no idea how Narcissa would word her request, whether he knew what it was or not; it could have ended up being a Suicide Vow if wording was set in a particular way. Severus would not have rushed into such a thing, and I think he's clever enough to talk his way out of doing it if he needed to. The fact that he didn't seem to attempt to bluff his way out of it tells me, at least, that he didn't need to; no such contradiction was presented.
Posted by Monkeeshrines from Orlando FL on April 17, 2007 11:27 AM
Just to jump in on the side of Severus... Dumbledore is very very clear to Harry that Harry must tell Snape EVERYTHING about the circumstances of Dumbledore's injury from the potion in HBP. When the cursed necklace injures Katie Bell it is immediately taken to Snape so he can use knowledge of the item to aid in the cure. Similarly, when the ring's defences wither Dumbledore's hand it is Snape who treats Dumbledore.
If there is ANY consistency in this magic then Snape MUST have been informed about the cursed object (ring-horcrux). And, as Voldemort still does not know that Harry is searching for Horcruxes it also means that Snape has not told his 'master' about that. This, to me, means that Harry does indeed have an ally who he does not recognize as such and it take some bed revelation on the part of Snape for Harry to learn and accept that Snape has been on his side all along.
Posted by Charlie Tarbox from Gettysburg, Pa on April 17, 2007 3:36 PM
When I was reading the thing about the life-s wht struck me was that Harry owned Lily a life- and we have seen its many uses. So we can be sure that a life- can be very helpful.
What more is that, that life- was broken (in the fourth part voldemort can touch Harry and the effect of the life- ends).
Posted by Deepa mohan from India on April 19, 2007 04:35 AM
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