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Reader Comments: (Page 14)

I'm sure Voldy is so bad that he told Lily he'd spare her life but he wasn't going to keep his promise anyway. Lily loved Harry as a mother can love a son and she performed the only spell Voldy didn't know of (or he underestimated it), and he was tricked into this spell because he wasn't loved as a child, his own mother d too early (she didn't even try to survive when her beloved muggle usband dismissed her) and he grew up in an orphanage, when Dumbledore went and find him to inform he was a wizard it was too late, Voldy was yet evil, he enjoyed tormenting other children

Posted by sabri from italy on January 17, 2007 11:12 AM

Isnt it obvious? Harry first must desroy all Horcruxes (including Voldemort, himself) but himself and one other. Then Harry must himself, leaving another Wizard (which i belive to be Neville Longbottom) to destroy the last.

The reason Harry must leave one for Neville to is because otherwise Voldemort live on in harry and take control of him, not allowing him to himself.

Make sense?

Posted by kelsey from ricmond, usa on January 17, 2007 12:24 PM

This is all brilliant, i hate to have to admit it to myself but yeah this is super convincing....

What convinces me most, sorry if it has already been said but 14 pages of replies i cant possibly be bothered to shift through:

perhaps, having heard the prophecy, Voldemort and his twisted mind decided to ironically make Harry's body the last Horcrux... However I still wonder if Voldemort knows that Harry is the Horcrux so that doesnt exactly follow... except for one person's arguement that he was happy to throw away the diary and so seeing harry as more of a threat than a worthwhile soul-keep so he tries to rid of him for good in Goblet of Fire...

priori incantatem seems like another point of evidence but i cant quite point exactly why... they are both the same and same amount of Voldy's soul? Not only the same wand...

I'm not quite convinced Neville attain such a high role in the story although it certainly makes sense, perhaps i just dont want him to...

In terms of spells and the great deflection: now it may have been the Cruciatious curse but someone once said "you have to mean it" to perform it, in that case Voldy perhaps couldnt mean utterly that he wanted to destroy Harry as an incarnation of purest love (that which his mother left)...

if not I do remember that Mad-eye Moody, or rather the barty crouch version, when teaching about the unforgiveable curses does not give out the secret for performing AK, but hints at it's darkness... Given that we dont know directly of any good wizards that have performed it ingly or at all, perhaps it is entangled with Horcruxes and the splitting of the soul, as we know that there is at least a one-way relationship in the creation of a Horcrux requiring ing by AK. Perhaps attaining the power to create a Horcrux is learning to AK without losing the soul you shed but rather redirecting it into another object - making it obvious why Voldemort is such a powerful renowned wizard among other feats of his... If so perhaps part of Harry's soul rejected the curse Voldy performed (being the exact opposite as a manifestation of love) and so Voldy only achieved 1/2 of his desire: Horcrux, but no of victim, the side turning back at him before he could avoid the completion of the horcrux

again it all sadly feels like it fits but Rowling aint given us quite enough of the jigsaw, leaving the remains to be filled in, however close we are, in her own masterful work in the last book...

someone gave me a fair reason why shed choose this end for harry:

it often leaves an unsatisfied kinda boring or even unworthy end to simply synopsise the rest of the main character and crew's lives after such an epic saga... i mean, wouldnt this be just the start of Harry's life, with greater things to come?

Also its hella easier and does more justice than leaving an open ending for other authors and countless fanfics to attempt to elaborate on, much in the same way as Star Wars has so many independent story books using the same fantastical universe... Rownling wouldnt want any more of these than we have already to dampen the totality and perfection of her work

...it is kinda fitting, sadly so, but an amazing conclusion, and i always felt the prophecy was kinda weirdly phrased or ambiguous, it seemed like neither of them could be alive now, and it is true at least that neither can be TRULY alive i.e. fully-souled while the other survives...

peace nd thanks for the speculation

Posted by Lex from london england on January 17, 2007 2:13 PM

having read my fair share of comments and realised how pointless mine was... id like to expand on Herve's point on page 11 that voldemort may have wanted a living horcrux to go that step further towards immortality

let us recall that right from the beginning in the confrontation scene in Philosopher's Stone, Voldemort tries to offer harry equality for them to rule together... again at the encounter in Goblet of Fire, Voldemort repetetively gives harry a chance to change sides and stand by him...:

Voldemort perhaps wanted to weild harry as another means by which to create Horcruxes: if harry were to create 7 of his own, they would all contain 1/49th of Voldemort's soul and one of harry's horcruxes in turn could have been a living wizard and have done the same, and so on...

This would explain his eagerness to have Lilly on his side, living, and as a Horcrux, as a potent and volatile (he assumed) witch herself.

etc

I think that theories about the horcrux being an embedded part of harry and not his very soul and essence can be elaborated on for a not wholly unromantic view of it (such as it being an eye-brow hair of his... ooh... how dramatic!)...

what if it IS his blood!? When Voldemort recreates his body with the blood he gains that part of his soul back but nevertheless needs a 7th Horcrux again and gives Harry a second opportunity - having survived it once makes him a safe and worthy living vessel.

And how does the blood relate to anything else solidly? his SCAR! it is always portrayed as a red lightning patch, an entry into his veins and his mind. Personally i dont think blood is romantic enough, but it is the best physical part of the body for it to be, and in my mind has such a close relation to the depiction of the scar...

as for lilly's love magic i have no clue but i still think something along the lines of love and quirrel-voldy unable to touch harry and so on is perhaps because harry houses the only part of voldy's soul with any compassion, perhaps lilly's wish was to channel that out of voldemort and nothing else since she was not powerful enough to fully prevent things. then voldemort's new soul shard backfires his evil intent.

just some thoughts inspired by this marvellous page of insight

Posted by Lex from london england on January 17, 2007 3:48 PM

About Voldemort and Lily:

Jo says a few capital things about them in her interviews:
(1) Lily was given a clear choice by Voldemort at GH
(2) She chose , but she didn't know (and couldn't believe) that her choice would save Harry's life
(3) Her choice was the one of every normal mother

We know her last words, as Harry recalls them in front of the Dementors. It makes it clear she knew that Voldemort was going to AK' Harry. BUT her standing in front of Voldemort at the end of it IS NOT what saved Harry. ONLY her choice saved Harry. Besides that, we know that her choice was a loving choice.

From there, I would make some suggestions:
Voldemort had to obtain something from Lily, either at this very time or later. He needed Lily to accept it from her own (was it a special non-verbal spell that she only could perform on her own , or something she would do later that needed an Unbreakable Vow?). Voldemort thought she would accept it. But it was something evil, "worse than ". Voldemort can't understand there are things worse than , that is why he fails in front of Lily (his main weakness as Dumbledore tells him).

Posted by herve from strasbourg on January 18, 2007 12:35 AM

About Petunia, Dumpledore said to Harry:
"I thought," said Dumbledore, inclining his head slightly, "that she might need reminding of the pact she had sealed by taking you...."

What is the nature of this pact and why is it so frightening to Petunia? Up to now, along harmful pacts, we have only seen Unbeakable Vows and signing a magic paper (Hermione's).

Sealing a pact that would be harmful for the other person is somehow evil and doesn't look like Dumbledore. Did Dumbledore himself make that pact with Petunia or was it someone else? Notice that he doesn't say "she had sealed WITH ME" but "she had sealed BY TAKING YOU." Also notice that this pact is explained in the letter, not sealed afterwards by an acceptance on a magic paper.

And if the pact was sealed only because she accepted on her own to take Harry, how could Dumbledore be so sure she would accept that he left Harry alone outside her door with a simple letter. Let's face it: if you found at your door the baby of your hatred sister, a future wizard threatened by the worse dark wizards, and were asked to rescue him and keep him under your roof at any condition; if you were given the choice to accept or refuse, would you accept it, or would you send it back to Dumbledore?

I think, if I were Petunia AND FREE TO DO SO, that I would bring Harry to the nearest orphanage, give them enough money to care about him, and wait for the next owl to send a letter back to Dumbledore (but maybe this is the reason why I'm not Petunia).

Posted by herve from strasbourg on January 18, 2007 02:23 AM

I don't think that Harry might be the last Horcrux because if he is, then why Voldemort wanted to him? If he s him then he be in loss for himself only. I think Neville can be the last Horcrux because noone thinks about him like this. So if Voldemort would have chosen him as the last Horcrux then I don't think that anyone can suspect him.

Posted by Deepshikha Chakraborty from Ranchi,Jharkhand on January 18, 2007 03:41 AM

I think Voldemort never got around to making 6 Horcruxes. Remember that DD said he was one Horcrux short of his goal and he intended to make the last one with Harry's . And we all know that AK backfired on LV instead. Then DD says Nagini could be a Horcrux. But I don't think that's possible either.

In the Priori Incantatem, there should've been a shadow of a Horcrux spell after Frank Bryce's because DD thinks that he made Nagini one after ing Bryce. But there was no such shadow.

So that comes down to the following list:
1. The Ring
2. The Cup
3. The Locket
4. The Diary
Out of these, 2 have been destroyed. And anyway, how could Nagini be a Horcrux? Wouldn't she just DIE eventually? So assuming LV has made no more Horcruxes, Harry only has to destroy two. Although, LV may have made a Horcrux with Emmeline Vance's .

Posted by Aditi from Nagpur, India on January 18, 2007 04:05 AM

Aditi,
Depending on what kind of snake Nagini is, she(?) could be very long lived. Although the only "mundane" snake that has her properties(i.e. size and being venomous) would be either a King Cobra or perhaps a Black Mamba. Even then she would be exceptionally large for her kind. Of course, she could be of a bread one would only find in the "magical" world.
Cobras can live up to 20 years, Mambas 16. Some pythons, I've read, have been estimated to be near 80-100 years. But they don't have venom.

Posted by Kevin from Wisconsin on January 18, 2007 09:56 AM

herve, I've tried to explain this before, let me know if it makes sense.

Lilly sacrificed her life to protect Harry as a baby, Her protection ran in his blood, he shares his mother's blood, her sister shares her blood, Dumbledore cast a charm so her blood could still protect him, if she accepted Harry and agreed to raise him as her own, the protection of the shared blood (Petunia+Lilly+Harry) would protect Harry in Petunia's house as long as he could call it home. She accepted Harry and sealed the charm. but it only lasts until Harry turns 17.

Posted by Kevin from Wisconsin on January 18, 2007 10:48 AM

this leads me to two intersting final plot twists that wolud allow harry to defeat voldemort and be horocrux (although I am skeptical pending further evidence)
1. both roughly stimlutainously (think holmes and moriarty)
2. Potter s Voldemort but shortly after is assainated by vengeful Eaters
who knows

Posted by tiresias from bethesda, md on January 18, 2007 11:44 AM

Kevin, we already saw what I would call parallel backstories, I mean Jo considering that two stories can both be true and choosing one, effectively hidden beneath thin clues: Quirrel/Rogue, Barty/Rogue and now Rogue being on the wrong or on the good side. Those backstories usually are as long as one book.

Now, what about Jo making parallel backstories from the very beginning around Voldemort's real ambition and the nature of Harry's scar? Both of them would be plausible, although one is strongly hidden, so that it looks fishy.

The first one is the official Dumbledore's one that you described very very well in your messages (Harry's scar being a simple magical link, Voldemort attacking Harry because of the prophecy, then being so angry at losing that he can't live until he s Harry, Lily saving Harry through her attitude). In that case, book seven is mainly a quest for the last four horcruxes, and a final duel with Voldemort.

The second one (or maybe there are several ones left behind) is what I'm trying to figure out: Voldemort's trying to reincarnate into a younger wizard, Harry's scar hosting the Horcrux designed to transfer Voldemort's soul into Harry's body, Lily asked to serve Voldemort's purpose and refusing in such a way that she protects Harry, Petunia being asked something from Voldemort and accepting in such a way that she lives scared, Dumbledore not telling Harry about it because he feels remorse. In that case, book seven would lead to interesting knots, the final one being how to get rid of both Voldemort and the scar. I like this one more, for the surprises and knots it provides, but it's mainly personal.

If Jo really made two different stories, both plausible, then it's not possible for us to decide which one is true. But we can bet (not for real of course). So wait and see.

Nota: in both cases, we can still play on Dumbledore being or not, the place to find Slytherin Locket, who is RAB...

Posted by herve from strasbourg on January 18, 2007 1:15 PM

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