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Emmeline Vance: The Future Rosetta Stone
by Louis CasaBianca
Emmeline Vance appears in Order of the Phoenix for exactly 42 words, and yet she may very well be the key to understanding Snape, and therefore the key to understanding all seven books. First she's part of Harry Potter's guard on the way to 12 Grimauld Place. Next, in Half-Blood Prince, she's dead, killed around the corner from the Muggle Prime Minister's office.
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Reader Comments: (Page 8)
Brian and Emilio
Snape knew enough of the prophecy to know that either Harry or Neville were the boys to whom it referred. The bit he didn't hear was about the Dark Lord marking the boy as his equal - which might have warned Voldemort to hold off and see how things shaped up. Snape knew enough to send Voldemort after the Potters, ergo he must know that Harry is the one now destined to finish off Voldemort.
I wonder if guilt also explains his appalling bullying of Neville? Perhaps Bellatrix et al went after the Longbottoms because their son was the other possible choice?
Posted by Elizabeth from Australia on May 3, 2007 07:21 AM
I don't think Snape did know enough about the prophecy at the time he heard it to know that it referred to either Harry or Neville. He would only have come to this conclusion after the boys were born which was some months after he overheard the prophecy. Dumbledore says Snape didn't know how Voldemort would interpret the prophecy...he didn't know Voldemort would choose to go after the Potters until later and that was what caused him to go over to Dumbledore.
I wonder why he did choose the Potters? It sounds as though Neville's parents were equally talented.
I think Neville may yet avenge his parents' torture by being the one to get rid of Bellatrix.
Posted by Joe from England on May 4, 2007 03:08 AM
Elizabeth from Australia,
I agree with Joe from England, as the boys hadn't been born yet, there was no way for anybody but the Potters, the Longbottoms and their doctors, to know when they where due.
The prophesy says, "... as the seventh month s...", that could mean from the 16th to the 31st, and if they had been born a couple days latter they would have been born on the eigth month, not the seventh, so Snape realy didn't have enough to send Voldemort to a specific family, it was Voldemorts interpretation of the part of the prophesy that Severus told him what doomed Harry to be marked as Voldy's equal.
As Harry’s parents that where ed, and Harry marked, it was Neville who was “Safe”.
If, as many of us think, Severus was in love with Lily, when Voldemort “chose” Harry, Severus might have feared for Lily, whom he loved, and for James, whom he owed his life to, and turn on Voldemort, thus going to Dumbledore to have him the Potters, causing them to hide and choose a secret keeper.
You might be correct in your assumption that as it was Harry “The Chosen One”, and this ed his parents, Severus feels that if it had been Neville the one to be chosen, Lily would still be alive.
Posted by Emilio from Mexico City, Mexico on May 8, 2007 4:18 PM
Harry was more than one year old when his parents were attacked, so Voldemort had time to choose which boy he wanted to destroy. It may be that he got info from wormtail about the Potters secret location first, and the Longbottoms remained in hiding. Since Dumbledore must know when wizard children are born and know when to send out letters for them to go to Hogwarts, he must have warned the Longbottoms to go into hiding too. I wonder who their secret keeper was? They didn't come out of hiding until Voldemort was cast down by the reflected spell. Then they became targets of Bellatrix and her crew.
Posted by Dave Porter from New Mexico on May 8, 2007 8:46 PM
Is there any mention of when the Longbottoms where attacked, was it before or after the Potters?
I believe that they where attacked BEFORE the Potters. Bellatrix was responsible for their torture (Barty Crouch Jr. in the movie).
It is possible that the Longbottoms hid their son Neville with his grandmother, and continued battling Voldemort with the Order.
I doubt that the Eaters could remain united and organized enough to stage an attack on the Longbottoms after Their masters fall, thus making it much more plausible the theory of them being attacked first.
Posted by Emilio from Mexico City, Mexico on May 17, 2007 11:41 AM
I like your idea about Neville being hidden with his grandmother, but I tend to side with Dave Porter on the timing of the attack on the Longbottoms. It wasn't so much as a united effort on the part of the Eaters, but more of a rogue thing with Bellatrix and her crew (including Barty Jr). I believe the timing of the attack on the Longbottoms is given during the trial of Bart Crouch Jr in GoF (the book).
Posted by Robbie from New Mexico on May 17, 2007 11:03 PM
Bellatrix attacked the Longbottoms after Voldemort was vanquished. It was after most of the other eaters had been taken as well. I remember reading that it was just when wizards were thinking there would be no more attacks, and it was a huge shock, and sent fears running amok again. Neville would have been older than 1 and less than 2 or 3 yrs. old. I think Dumbledore tells Harry this after the pensieve incident in GOF. Bellatrix was trying to get info as to whether the ministry knew what happened to Voldemort.
Posted by Dave Porter from New Mexico on May 18, 2007 07:27 AM
Emilio - I'm pretty sure Alice and Frank were attacked after Lily and James. The reason cited for the attack was Bellatrix & Co. had believed Frank (and perhaps Alice) had information on Voldemort's whereabouts, and were trying to get him to tell them. I also seem to remember someone (Albus?) making a comment about how people thought they were safe, and then the Longbottoms were attacked. Also, Sirius said in Goblet of Fire that he found out what happened to Barty Jr. after he escaped, and surely he would have known what Barty had been arrested for if it had happened before the attack on the Potters (and thus, before he was sent to Azkaban).
I believe that you are right, though, in sayng Eaters probably would not remain organized for long after Voldemort's fall. Except for the few that were very proud to be included in his group (like Bellatrix), the rest scattered, lied, etc to get out of imprisonment. The ones that were proud organized attacks, and most of them got caught.
Dave Porter, the idea that the Longbottoms also went into hiding intrigues me, and it makes perfect sense. I'm not sure the detail of who their Secret Keeper was be important enough to mention in the book, though. (Maybe it was Frank's mom. She seems like a loyal, steely-spirited woman, even if a bit overbearing. I'd trust her with my life!)
Posted by Monkeeshrines from orlando fl on May 18, 2007 08:49 AM
Robie & Dave,
I stand corrected, thanks for the info.
Posted by Emilio from Mexico City, Mexico on May 18, 2007 09:50 AM
The Potters only went into hiding after Dumbledore was warned by someone (possibly Snape but perhaps someone else...? Regulus?) that Voldemort was after THEM i.e. after Voldemort acted on the prophecy. The prophecy only becomes significant if Voldemort acts on it, remember. I just have a feeling that if Dumbledore had told the Longbottoms about the prophecy and got them to go into hiding that he would have been interfering with the prophecy too much... I think Bellatrix knew about the prophecy and that was why the eaters went to the Longbottoms. (they managed to talk their way out of Azkaban to do it so they must have been pretty determined...I think Bellatrix also knew about the horcrux(es).)
On the other hand, if as Dumbledore, you heard a prophecy saying there was a possibility that a wizard would be born who could defeat Lord Voldemort might you not act to ensure that it came true? Or if not Dumbledore then someone else who had heard the prophecy? Why did Voldemort choose to go after the Potters and not the Longbottoms?
Posted by Joe from England on May 21, 2007 3:12 PM
Of course Lily and James Potter would have hid too if they knew that Lord Voldemort was after their son. I think Dumbledore said the Potters were hiding because someone told THEM that Lord Voldemort was after them. I think this "someone" was Dumbledore.
I don't know if Bellatrix knew about the prophecy, but she certainly didn't know about the Horcruxes.
I think Lord Voldemortwent after the Potters because he planned to both Harry and Neville, and he didn't mean to only Harry. The prophecy was made in a way so the Dark Lord couldn't know for sure which boy it meant.
Anyway, I am sure that Neville in a way help Harry to Voldemort (and even with finding the Horcruxes, if Harry tells him about them), because Neville, too, surely wants revenge.
Posted by Luna from Norway on May 22, 2007 08:17 AM
Joe from England,
Monkeeshrines from Orlando mentioned that the Longbottoms where attacked AFTER the fall of The Dark Lord, they might have been in hiding just like the Potters, as I believe Dumbledore would warn everybody that might fall under the characteristics described by the prophesy, just in case.
Dumbledore did tell us why he thought that Voldemort had chosen Harry and not Neville, he said that Voldy had not chosen the pure blood, he had chosen the half blood, just like himself. Of course, Dumbledore was just speculating, but Albus had much more information on Tom Riddle than that which has been passed unto us, as he had been his teacher and had made it his business to watch young tom carefully.
Posted by Emilio from Mexico City, mexico on May 22, 2007 09:00 AM
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