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Dumbledore Is Not !
by David Haber
Well... maybe not. At least, I don't think he is. Snape's betrayal and the of Dumbledore caught me completely by surprise. Dumbledore was , and on top of that, Snape had done it. And all of the clues point to two possibilities, that Dumbledore's not really , or at the very least, that Snape's not really a Eater, and he Dumbledore because Dumbledore ordered him to, as part of a grand plan.
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Reader Comments: (Page 6)
As I already told in my earlier comments, Dumbledore really is . I once again stress upon the point that the person who is really is Aberforth Dumbledore but not Albus. Albus dumbledore is still alive and this is already known to Harry and Hagrid. The reason for this is... If Albus Dumbledore were really to be , Hagrid would definitely take revenge on Snape immediately, because Hagrid admires Dumbledore a lot. He wouldn't wait until the was over and blah blah. Also, Hagrid cries at the of Aragog which was just a harmful monster. On the other hand, at the news of the of Dumbledore he wudn't react too much.
Harry also knows that Dumbledore (Albus) is not really . This can be understood from the following sentences from the last chap of buk6. (Pgs 648, 649) -----" Such loyalty is admirable of course", said Scrimgeour, who seemed to be restraining his irritation with difficulty, "But Dumbledore is gone, Harry. He's gone."
To this harry replied,
"He only be gone from the school when none here are loyal to him," said Harry, smiling inspite of himself.
"My dear boy...even Dumbledore cannot return from the---"
"I'm not saying he can. You wouldn't understand. But I've got nothing to tell you".
This definitely means that Albus dumbledore is not and Harry knows this!
Posted by Pavan Srivatsava from Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh on September 23, 2006 06:19 AM
I like the speculation and overall discussion.
As for JK Rowling stating that "Dumbledore is not Gandalf" or something to that nature. As one reader stated above--if Gandalf truly did , the assumption here is Dumbledore did NOT and is not . Therefore this is not a repeat of Gandalf.
I think the non-verbal spells are a giant clue in what has happened to Dumbledore as is the phoenix. If Dumbledore was thrown from the tower, the tears of the phoenix could have cured whatever broken bones he suffered (although I am not certain why it couldn't have cured his withered and blackened hand, unless there really is old, dark magic that there is no cure for).
The whole argument of Dumbledore's brother doesn't hold much validity for me, because there isn't anything to really support that theory. I mean anything is possible, I suppose, but it's just my opinion.
Dumbledore knew that Ron and Hermione would accompany Harry on this quest, hence him telling Harry to "keep your friends close" and to always confide in them. Harry may be the one who ultimately duels (defeat maybe?) Voldemort, but he need Ron and Hermione's help along the way (as apparent in The Sorcerer's Stone).
I love most of the ideas for both entertainment purposes and also getting my brain moving with ideas. Kudos to the well thought out notions.
Posted by Jenny from St. George, Utah on September 24, 2006 2:57 PM
I like the idea that Dumbledore’s brother is the one , but I am not sure that I believe your reasoning. First, Hagrid is 100% loyal to Dumbledore, and therefore if Dumbledore said to Hagrid not to take revenge on Snape, he wouldn’t. Hagrid is so loyal to Dumbledore that he follow orders without question, to his best ability, period.
Secondly, why would Albus’ brother like this? It is highly unlikely that he would give up his life, given that it would be totally possible for Snape to fake the AK curse (as discussed earlier in this thread), and thus fake Albus’ in a more logical fashion.
With this said, I get tingles hearing that Harry knew, deep down, that Ablus’ brother had taken the place of Albus Dumbledore. It is highly possible that this is the case, though we need to look further at the details in the last few chapters, to see if there are any hints or cues that Albus is indeed not present on top of the tower.
Angela, you make a VERY good point about the portraits. As memory serves me, the portraits are representations of PAST headmasters, not necessarily ones. Let me explain. Let us assume that all the past headmasters are , since most headmasters remain in their position until old age, and given that Dumbledore has held the position for a while, it is safe to assume that all other headmasters are . Now, with that established, how would anyone know if the portrait appearing in the Headmaster’s office is indeed a sign of ? I believe it could just as easily be a sign of resignation, meaning that it is a sign of Dumbledore leaving his post as headmaster. Now, follow me to my next point, because this is where the story would connect the dots. We all assumed, from the way JK likes to misdirect us, that the portraits are signs of , but this is never actually said (please speak up with proof if I am wrong here). The reason this is important is that we all think Dumbledore is really , because of the portrait on the wall, HOWEVER, this is trick to misdirect us. Dumbledore resigned his position the night of the invasion of the Eaters into Hogwarts, and therefore his portrait was magically placed on the wall. But it is truly asleep, what does this mean? I initially thought that the fact the portrait was sleeping could mean that Dumbledore is asleep in person, maybe he has taken a sleeping draft, which would make him appear ? Hagrid wouldn’t know the difference, and would of course bury him as usual. Snape later return, and bring Dumbledore back from the deep slumber.
This is just an idea, but it seems to make perfect sense to me, especially after the comments everyone made in this thread.
The one remaining problem I see is dealing with the unbreakable vow. I think Snape either lied to Narcissa about knowing the details of Draco’s orders, or I think Snape saw the plan through his mind reading capabilities. If Snape did not indeed know about the plans, and was lying, then it is totally plausible that Snape is not held to the unbreakable vow, given the fact that he didn’t even know what was planned (nothing was explicitly stated about Dumbledore or any other details of the plan that night). If Snape did indeed know about the plan for Draco to Dumbledore, then he would have to follow this to the best of his ability. But this is where the reasoning gets tricky--
In the Vow, Snape was required to do a few things:
Snape has to watch over Draco as he attempts to fulfill LV’s wishes.
He needs to protect Draco from harm.
And, from the text-- “should it prove necessary… if it seems Draco fail… you carry out the deed that the Dark Lord has ordered”
Now, we don’t specifically know the deed that LV ordered, and we shouldn’t act as if we do know. Draco could have been ordered to remove Dumbledore from his role as headmaster, or to put him out of commission, or to him. Even if the wording of the deed was “take Dumbledore out” this would not necessarily mean to him. It really depends on a lot of things, and therefore we can’t really know what Snape is tied to. BUT, I remind you that Snape has 3 orders, some of which could contradict the other.
If Snape believed that ing Dumbledore would place Draco in danger, then it would be safe to say he could opt to keep Draco safe, and Dumbledore alive. I think this is what happened. Snape thought that if Draco ed Dumbledore, or if he helped Draco Dumbledore, that Draco would either be put in Azkaban (eventually), or ed by some wizard police/ OoTP member. Also, ing does hurt people, as we have seen earlier. It seems to take a piece of the soul out of the er, leaving them less of what they were before the ing. Thus, Snape could deduce that having Draco Dumbledore would scar him, and thus he would keep Draco safe.
My final thought is this-- I believe Snape did know about LV’s orders, and I think he did follow the Unbreakable Vow. By faking Dumbledore’s , Snape made LV think that Draco succeeded, thus keeping him momentarily safe, while at the same time keeping Dumbledore alive, and thus affording Draco safety after LV’s demise. Snape has taken the road, while leading Draco along, that afford them both the greatest safety and trust of LV. Look at the evidence, it is clear that Snape has decided on a plan that help Dumbledore’s side the most, while successfully corrupting and fooling LV’s side.
Sorry for the extra long posting, I hope nobody fell asleep reading it…
Posted by Brett J. from Boulder, CO on September 24, 2006 3:56 PM
I came to the conclusion that Aberforth Dumbledore is because, JKR in her recent interview said,"I need to be a little more explicit and say that Dumbledore is definitely ". This cant be wrong because, she herself told that Dumbledore is . She might be cunning in not revealing the true identity of the person(Albus or Aberforth).
Also, regarding the portrait on the wall, Dumbledore needn't be to get his portrait because, in the very first volume, Harry and Ron talk of the cards at the back of which Albus, Nicholas Flamel etc are present and they were not by that time.
It is enough if the person is a headmaster, or really great for his portrait to come. There is one more possibility. It might even be the portrait of Aberforth Dumbledore (who might just be like Albus- they may be twins, who knows?), he being a temporary headmaster for one yr at hogwarts (He substituted himself for Albus at the time of the ).
What do you say?
Posted by Pavan Srivatsava from Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh on September 24, 2006 8:44 PM
Brett J. has a great point about Draco's duty. We assume it was to Dumbledore, but what if it was something else? I don't think LV really expects Draco to be able to Dumbledore. More likely it was to remove Dumbledore as headmaster - something that can be done by faking Dumbledore's .
Posted by Saint Cad from Los Angeles on September 25, 2006 12:12 PM
well i believe he is because through the whole series he has hinted that the greatest of men are somtimes the most wrong. and snape commited in the bond so he would if he didnt him. further more If it is his brother that is how could he know all that dumbledore knew? and would dumbledore realy sacrifice his brother so he could live? (I think not).
Posted by allen from Sandefjor Norway on September 27, 2006 01:30 AM
I think that dumbeldore is , but that he had planned it. I hate Snape, but i believe he is on the good side. I think Dumbeldore knew somehow that he had to be out of the way for harry to Voldemort. Just guessing. I also think Malfoy come to the good side eventually, otherwise he's just gonna . Also, yes one more thing, has anyone brought up the question of who RAB is? I'm really wondering. One of my friends thinks it's Regalus A. Black, Sirius' brother. I think it could possibly be, and i can't wait for the second book to find out...GO HP!
Posted by Lena from Bethesda, MD on September 27, 2006 10:36 AM
Hey, this is just a general comment about Dumbledore. When Harry is in Dumbldore's memories he says when he was younger he had AUBURN hair. The weasleys all have RED hair. Is it possible that Dumbldore is like Mr. Weasley's Grandpa or someting? Or a distant relative?
Posted by Mark on September 27, 2006 6:16 PM
im completey in agreement with allen that somtimes the greatest men fail..this is true. and in case of dumbledore it applies...all we guys do or can do is to speculate about dumbledore's (rather faked ) but it must noted that rowling doesnt pay much attention to dumbledore in her interview...means that the HP7 bring forward a totally different story which has not yet been told or undiscovered. Though personally i would like dumbledore to be alive but guys we must accept the truth and it is....he is . The whole aberforth theory is worth reading and thinking but i dont think so she ask such a character within such a small time to perform such an explicit task (Remeber JK always goes in detail with a person even if it has to perform a small job)
Posted by abheevrato from mumbai on September 28, 2006 07:18 AM
There is no way AD is . not one way that that could happen. as for snape, I refuse to belive he is bad. he is my favorite character and dumbledore is my second. how can you belive that JK would one of the most important people that is needed to bring around voldemorts down fall?
Posted by Alanna Szenasi from albuquerque, New mexico on September 28, 2006 12:16 PM
I dont know what to believe now because a few dayz ago i believed dumbledore was alive but since ready all harry potter books again 1-6 well there is evidence to support both causing dumbledore to be and also alive also alanna we do not know whether Voldemort at the end of book 7? Im hoping dumbledore is alive, but i guess we'll just have to wait for Book 7!
Posted by Abdul Buho from London on September 28, 2006 1:28 PM
It seemed to me that Snape tried very hard to allow Harry to survive during the flight from the tower. Snape tells a DE that HP is to be saved for Voldimort, but they could've left him stunned or stupefyed before leaving. Instead Snape counters HP's spells while telling Harry about being the HBP. Why tell Harry he is the HBP? Maybe so that later Harry be more trusting towards Snape. A theme through the whole book was if the Prince was a good person or not Harry always thought he was good, maybe that allow HP to think carfully about Snapes role at the end of book 6.
Posted by Ron from USA on September 29, 2006 10:27 AM
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