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by David Haber
These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really , or at least Snape Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.
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Reader Comments: (Page 3)
Very good comment, pankhuri, but I don't think it necessarily means Dumbledore is . On the contrary, Dumbledore knew it was important for Harry to face Voldemort alone. That means either that he could have had Snape him on Dumbledore's orders (meaning Snape is still a good guy) or that he could be faking his own , and not really be . But the result is the same, Harry thinks he's , and that's what Harry needs to move on and defeat Voldemort.
Posted by Dave Haber from Los Angeles, CA on September 27, 2006 10:10 AM
I would like to say that I find all of these comments intellectually stimulating. My wife hooked me on these books two years ago and I read them everyday. I am former prosecuting attorney who has specialized in the detection and prosecution of cases. This comes in handy now as a defense attorney if one has an innocent client or if one is an addicted Harry Potter fan attempting to gaze into the future and speculate on the fate our young hero and his friends. One of the many things I have not figured out yet, and I hope that some of you out there in Cyberland can help me figure out this one: Who else accompanied or followed Voldemort the night he attempted to Harry? I can only assume that that it was Wormtail as he was he real secret keeper for the Potters and he showed up with Voldemort�s wand later. I think the question is important because of how important the use of the wands are in the performance of the spells and Voldemort�s wand is the primary weapon in this story. If Voldemort could not assume a physical form, how could he have carried off his own wand? Where was his wand the whole time he could not assume his own physical form? We know that Voldemort uses it to the muggle in the beginning of the Goblet of Fire and then it appears that Wormtail uses it to Cedric Diggory later in the story, but where it was and who had it after Voldemort lost his powers is an issue, to my knowledge, that has never been addressed on this forum. I believe Voldemort�s wand and wands in general be an even bigger plot issue in book 7 as I predict that Voldemort obtain a new wand. Any suggestions out there?
Posted by Earl Rhoads from Santa, New Mexico USA on September 27, 2006 1:35 PM
hey dave. your site is amazing. i love all you theories. but there is one thing that i don't get. when DD is up in the tower JKR mentions that he keeps slipping down the wall. do you have any theories to why he was doing this? i think its suspicious..
Posted by Neil from New York on September 27, 2006 6:13 PM
I'm not sure that means anything ominous. He was tired from having taken that really bad potion in the cave, and he was trying to hide showing it.
Posted by David Haber from Los Angeles, CA on September 27, 2006 6:43 PM
Whew. I've been looking at some of these other articles now, and while your "Unanswered Dumbledore Questions" article was (to be blunt) not the most well-defended, these others are actually quite convincing, and I'm starting to have doubts myself.
I say this, though: I think it would be a shame if Dumbledore was brought back to life.
I'm not putting him down here; Dumbledore is by far my favorite character in the series, and I admit I cried a little when I first read that fateful chapter (it still chokes me up to read it, even now; the scene is even worse). But really, I think Dumbledore needs to stay here, for a couple of reasons.
First of all, there's the matter of plot advancement. I agree with pankhuri that Dumbledore's was necessary in order for Harry to realize that no one was left to protect him. It could be (and in fact has been) argued that Dumbledore could have faked his to the same effect, but I don't see that setting up a great ending - I imagine Harry, having been forced to deal with all this pain and grief over Dumbledore's ',' would surely be hurt and upset with Dumbledore, and what kind of ending would that be?
Secondly, and this is the argument that I tend to favor, there is the matter of the underlying theme of this series, which I would say is 'growing up,' or 'adulthood.' We have seen Harry progress from a poor, orphaned unfortunate who had never even heard of a Muggle before, through the stages of puberty, with all of its teenaged awkwardness, first kiss, etc., and on towards what I would call the onset of adulthood and responsibility at the end of HBP.
As Harry has gotten older and more mature, the situations he has been placed in, and the tone of the books themselves, has become progressively darker and more serious, going from a poor, abused child thrust into new situations, but always under the protection/guidance of someone older and wiser, to all sorts of 'adult' situations: the discovery that authority figures aren't always right; witnessing the of a loved one; being forced to make real-life decisions that would make the difference between his friends living or . I think Dumbledore's represents the natural next step for Harry; he has to come to terms with his grief and realize that he is quite alone, that "the shelter of a parent's arm" is no shelter against the evil he is facing.
I have the feeling that I'm sort of dancing around the point here. What I'm trying to say is, if Dumbledore had indeed faked his own , and came back in Book Seven, this would be a tremendous step backwards in terms of Harry's development as an adult and an individual, and would run quite contrary to the pattern that Rowling has established here. As much as it saddens me to have to come to terms with it yet again, "the last and the greatest of [Harry's] protectors" is not going to cheat , and Harry (like the rest of us) needs to accept this and move on.
I absolutely love all this discussion by the way; among other things, it's a great way to get warmed up for writing academic papers.
Posted by Curtis from Rochester, NY on September 28, 2006 12:24 AM
I am sorry to all, but while the theories are thought provoking Dumbledore is and Snape is most likely evil.
Snape loved Lily, Not:
1) If Snape loved Lily, wouldn't he have known that Harry Potter would also fulfill the prophecy and not tell the Dark Lord?
2) Snape changing sides because of remorse about telling Voldemort the prophecy does not make sense. Snape hated James and Lily. She ended up with James and was a mudblood. How would Snape love her?
3) Wouldn't Snape have helped Lily escape and prevented her ? Wormtail betrays them and they are ed? Wouldn't Snape have reported Wormtail as a double agent to save Lily's life?
4) Wouldn't Snape treat her Lily's only son who has his mother's eyes better? He has treated him poorly from the beginning. Not the behavior of someone who should want to look after his beloved's only son.
Snape as a Double Agent So He Had to Do It, Some Double Agent:
1) Snape's role as a double agent is now useless because no one on the good side trusts him. Therefore, he would not have to Dumbledore to maintain it.
2) As a double agent, what value has Snape provided? He didn't save Lily and James. He didn't tell Dumbledore about the Horcruxes. He didn't save Sirius. He has never thwarted Volemorts plots. We have no evidence that he has done anything as a double agent.
3) Why couldn't Snape have lied to Dumbledore? Wouldn't Snape as a triple agent serve the Dark Lord even better? If he could deceive the Dark Lord, why not Dumbledore?
Dumbledore's Mistakes in Judging People:
1) Dumbledore has admitted mistakes in judgement such as not telling Harry earlier. No one but Dumbledore ever trusted Snape. Therefore, couldn't Dumbledore's trust in Snape be just another mistake?
Slytherins are always opportunistic and utilize their abilities to serve their own self interests first. In seeing the Dark Lord's strength rising again, Snape probably chooses the side of evil once again.
Dumbledore Fakes , Not Too Likely:
1)While Harry must face Voldemort alone in the end, he sure could use a lot of help finding and destroying the other Horcruxes. Harry need a lot of help to do so, Dumbledore would probably better serve Harry by staying alive. How could he do this by taking himself out of the picture (fake or real)?
2) Dumbledore's "" meant to drive Harry to go to his roots? Dumbledore could just as easily asked Harry to go back to the beginning himself. He would better serve Harry by continuing to guide him.
3) Why fake his when he is not afraid of actually ? Dumbledore once told Harry, that to the well trained mind, is but another adventure. Why fake your if real does not frighten you?
4) The only reason that Dumbledore would choose to is if it gave him greater powers to help fight Voldemort. Therefore, he would actually not fake his .
Snape Not Evil Does Not Mean Dumbledore is Alive:
Assume that I am completely wrong and that Snape was just following Dumbledore's orders, so what? It does not mean that Dumbledore is alive.
Dumbledore , But Not Done Influencing Harry:
While I say that Dumbledore is , this does not mean that he does not have a future part to play. Dumbledore has items such as his portraits and probably all sorts of other clues and powers that probably help Harry. Dumbledore continue to help Harry even from beyond .
Who is RAB and is the Locket Really Destroyed?
RAB is Regulus (sp) Black. Sirius stated his brother was a low level Eater that decided to leave and was quickly ed. Why take the trouble unless Voldemort discovered that he knew about the Horcruxes and was attempting to destroy one?
Was the locket actually destroyed? Why not destroy the Horcrux as soon as you find it? Why leave a fake with a note stating you are going to destroy it, and I (RAB) want you to know that I bested you (Voldemort)? Wouldn't the destroyed Horcrux left in the cave be a greater slap in Voldemort's face? We are assuming that RAB was successful, however there is no proof. My bet is the Horcrux was not destroyed but was taken away from Regulus before he was ed. Thus a very interesting plot twist in book 7.
Posted by Anonymous on September 28, 2006 9:25 PM
I think yor on to something there with clue #7 maybe it wasnt his wand that flue into the air but maybe one of Fred and Georges fake wands since you could tell Dumbledor was into Fred and Georges jokes through out all the books and since the joke shop was very popular during HBP.
Posted by Bridget from Florida on September 30, 2006 7:57 PM
At the beginning I though Dumby, by immbolizing Harry, he was protecting him... you know... after all, Harry does lose control of himself a lot and could of just gone of to fight... but then... there are so many other things that surged to my head to... it was as if everything was planned... Harry could of saved himslef and Dumbledore that night... Dumbledore knows he is a great wizard (Harry)... he has defeated several times Voldemort... but then I thought about Voldemort... and about Dumbledore... Dumby can defeat Voldemort but couldn't defend himself from Snape?... it couldn't be... there must to, has to, be a plan behind all this...
Posted by Valentina from Chile on October 2, 2006 3:55 PM
its very nice to discuss all this things, trying to see behind the lines of each book, find out hidden clues and everything...
unfortunatelly jkr has created the whole world and its rules so she can do anything she wants.nothing can b excluded becayse it doesnt fit.(such as the the whole thing aboute dd's wand,the colour of the curse and this kind of staff)
from all the clues that i ve read through posts on this subject i believe of them are not questionable.
1)R.A.B IS is regulus black
2)the words that dd says when he drinks that liquid in the cave
3)the missing text.its is missing in the greek edition of the book
4)the medallion that is found in sirius's house is the real horcrux
about the whole snape situation(good or bad) and dd( or alive) i think that maybe when she finished the book even her (jkr) had decided the answer...
Posted by Gina from Greece on October 3, 2006 05:00 AM
wow, i thought that i liked reading hp. apparently not as much as curtis. so i was reading the comments about how what house you are in can or does determine the color of your spells. well, in hp 2 on page 190 in the USA version, snape's wand emits a dazzling flash of scarlet light when performing the "expelliarmus" spell. so, unless he can say avada kedavra, mean expelliarmus and still make his want flash a green light, i doubt that that actually happened. it is more likely that he said the ing curse and just meant a different spell entirely that also happens to be green, and could lift dumbledore off of his feet. yeah, dumbledore better be , otherwise that would be lame, like what curtis said it is part of his maturing process, and would make it a better, rounder story.
Posted by Stex Frimbledawlson from Mesa, Arizona on October 3, 2006 4:41 PM
Well, the clues you provided in support of the fact that
Dumbledore is NOT are quite convincing, but you do spacify at one point, that Dumbledore's body was never seen after his . But here's the excerpt to prove that wrong:
"Harry had known there was no hope from the moment that the Body-Bind Curse Dumbledore had placed upon him lifted, known that it could have happened only because its caster was ; but there was still no preparation for seeing him here, spread-eagled, broken: the greatest wizard Harry had ever, or would ever, meet.
Dumbledore's eyes were closed; but for the strange angle of his arms and legs, he might have been sleeping. Harry reached out, straightened the half-moon spectacles upon the crooked nose and wiped a trickle of blood from the mouth with his own sleeve. Then he gazed down at the wise old face and tried to absorb the enormous and incomprehensible truth: that never again would Dumbledore speak to him, never again could he help..." (HBP,568,U.K)
This shows that Harry and Hagrid HAD seen Dumbledore's body after his , BUT there is no evidence to prove that this is in reality ANOTHER ing that happened the SAME night and was in reality an effect of the polyjuice potion. In fact, it is also possible that the Dumbledore that was ed is an imposter of some sort. Maybe, it was a part of Dumbledore's master plan of forging his own . But we also know that Dumbledore would NEVER risk someone elses life for his own. So, these clues lead to only one explanation:
The night Dumbledore d, he knew Draco would not him.
"But why? I don't think you me, Draco. ing is
not nearly as easy as the innocent believe..." (HBP,548,U.K)
So Dumbledore knew that Draco would not him. And as the evidences suggest, Snape had used a non-verbal spell on Dumbledore that caused him to fall of the Astronomy tower. Dumbledore then probably transfigured an object into himself OR it was another person who had taken Dumbledore's polyjuice potion, so that evryone wuld think he was . Snape was Dumbledore's ally throughout and on his instructions did not disclose any of this to Harry. Draco would never have ed Dumbledore and THAT is the reason why Snape did NOT let anyone else dumbledore as they would ACTUALLY him.
"Ill do it, snarled Greyback, moving towards Dumbledore with his hands outstretched, his teeth bared.
I said no!, shouted the Brutal faced man: there was a flash of light and the werewolf was blasted out of the way; he hit the ramparts and staggered, looking furious." (HBP,555,U.K)
So Snape instructed the eaters that only HE would Dumbledore which were ACTUALLY Dumbledoe's instructions.
So, this a part of Dumbledore's master-plan which be revealed only in the seventh book.
Posted by Sparsh from New Delhi, Delhi on October 4, 2006 01:44 AM
speaking contrary to one of the points that sparsh brought up about Fenrir and Snape, in the USA version of HP6 on page 594, the page before Fenrir says "i'll do it," he tells Dumbledore that he can "do [him] for afters" then a eater steps in and says "no, we've got orders. Draco's got to do it..." therefore, it was not orders that snape dumbledore, but for Draco to him.
also, someone mentioned that madam pomphrey burst into tears after hearing the phoenix's song in the distance. but in the USA version on page 614 it says that she burst into tears after hearing about how snape ed dumbledore, then ginny shushes her because the phoenix is singing in the background and she cannot hear it because of madam pomphrey's sobbing. so, she probably didn't hear the phoenix until after becoming quiet and controlling her crying.
Posted by Stex Frimbledawlson from Mesa, Arizona on October 4, 2006 3:20 PM
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