Search Beyond Hogwarts:
by David Haber
These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really , or at least Snape Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.
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Reader Comments: (Page 29)
Well done Dave; what an intereating site.
I do think that Dumbledore is , though, because the only thing that conquers Voldemort is SACRIFICIAL love. The greatest example is that Harry's Mum sacrificed herself to save Harry. She d, but the power of what she had done protected Harry. I think that Dumbledore had worked out that he NEEDED to in order that Voldemort might . He had therefore got Snape to agree to him if necessary (which was why Snape was prepared to enter into the Unbreakable Vow to help Draco - doing so would greatly boost his credibility with Voldemort and the Eaters, and was no additional burden on him since he had already made the same promise to Dumbledore).
But Snape became reluctant to do this; maybe he preferred the idea of breaking the Vow and thus himself to the idea of being the wizard who ed Dumbledore. So Snape and Dumbledore argued about it (HBP Ch 19, p380 UK edition): "I jus' heard Snape sayin' Dumbledore took too much fer granted an' maybe he - Snape - didn' wan' ter do it any more - ' 'Do what?' 'I dunno, Harry, it sounded like Snape was fellin' a bit overworked, tha's all - anyway, Dumbledore told him flat out he'd agreed to do it an' that was all there was to it.'" So when Snape was confronted with the reality of having to Dumbledore, he didn't want to, and Dumbledore had to PLEAD with Snape to remember his promise and do it (HBP Ch 27, p556 - "For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading... Severus... please..."). This then explains the "revulsion and hatred" in Snape's face: he was very uning to do what he did.
So Dumbledore knew that he had to be sacrificed as part of the destruction of Voldemort, and he had got Snape to promise to make sure that it happened.
I don't know WHY the of Dumbledore should be important in the destruction of Voldemort. It may be nothing more than the general power of sacrificial love, though I am sure that there must be something more specific. However, as a completely off the wall idea - could it be that when Dumbledore wrestled with Marvolo's ring Horcrux, the piece of Voldemort's soul which was in the ring entered Dumbledore? So that he himself became a Horcrux, and therefore HAD to be destroyed? Note the curious wording about the destruction: "The ring is no longer a Horcrux" (HBP p471 UK) - leaving open the possibility that something else IS a Horcrux in the ring's place. And if this is right, Snape would have known about it because he was the one who treated Dumbledore after he returned with the injury. So Snape would know that Dumbledore really did have to . We do know that living things can be made into Horcruxes. Like I say, this is just a theory!
By the way, I don't agree with the idea at the top of this page that Dumbledore in HBP is Pettigrew using polyjuice. Dumbledore shows exceptional magic ss to access the fake locket Horcrux; no way does Pettigrew have that sort of power.
Not long till we all know! I suspect JK is going to surprise us all...
Posted by Tom on July 15, 2007 05:34 AM
well i have a few things to say about your dumbledore clues. first, great job on the non-verbal spell part. i thought that that is a very good clue. and second of all, you do get to dumbledores body again. you see it after snape escapes and hagrid is asking why would snape dumbledore whens he's a teacher. and then he sees it and starts cryin. lastly, isnt it possible that when malfoy used expelliarmus that his wand flew off the tower?
Posted by Josh from lenexa ks on July 15, 2007 10:16 AM
I have a theory. Remember in the cave with Harry, Dumbledore says 'Oho!' And Slughorn always says that... Also Slughorn feels guilty about telling Riddle about Horcruxes, so perhaps he, being potions master, brews up a Polyjuice potion and swaps places with Dumbledore, thus fulfilling his life to Harry for inadvertantly costing his parents their lives...
Posted by Josh from England on July 16, 2007 04:39 AM
I just wanted to add my two cents on the nature of Dumbledore here because I have not found a better place to offer my little theory. In a few days, I'll know if I am right or wrong. If I'm right, I can point to the date here to show that I thought this before the book came out!
I know others have noted that Dumbledore is closely linked with a Phoenix, but I've noticed clues that I have not heard discussed. For instance, have you noted that when Harry hears Phoenix song he does not say that it reminds him of Fawkes? He says it reminds him of Dumbledore. I know it says this in the graveyard scene in Book 4 and I think it also alludes to this in Chamber of Secrets.
I thought this was interesting, especially combined with some of the more obvious references like his patronus being a phoenix, The Order of the Phoenix, pet phoenix, wispy phoenix flying from his tomb, etc. Also Dumbledore is getting noticibly older, weaker and slower as time in the books progresses. Fawkes gets old, tired and ragged- looking before his burning day.
Perhaps Dumbledore (and Snape) knew that Dumbledore's 'burning day' was approaching anyway. Might as well use it to full advantage.
Anyway, I think the references to Dumbledore as phoenix are very important. I am not going out on a limb and saying he is a literal phoenix. Or that he physically come back from the , as Fawkes does, but somehow this analogy play out in book 7. The references to Dumbledore as phoenix are important and be made much clearer in this final book.
Posted by Kate from Florida on July 16, 2007 09:01 AM
Nice idea about Dumbledore having a burning day!
I've always thought that Fawkes expresses Dumbledore's emotions toward Harry, expresses Dumbledore's love for Harry, when Dumbledore can't express it overtly himself.
Thinking about Fawkes' lament at the end of HBP...Dumbledore says he loves Harry too much and wanted to shield him hence didn't tell him the prophecy (at the end of OotP)...it really struck me at the OotP film today that you have to let people you love free to go their own way and fulfill their own destiny...you can't protect or shield them from what they have to do with your love or by your love for them...especially true of your children. Dumbledore is a father figure for Harry...he has to let him go to fulfill his destiny...hence the lament of Fawkes at the end of HBP...an expression of this emotion....
Posted by Joe from England on July 16, 2007 2:14 PM
I see Fawkes as the embodiment of the cycle of life:
Birth leads to life, from which follows , which leads to birth etc...
Without there cannot be birth, just as without birth there cannot be .
Dumbledore belongs to the Order of the Phoenix, he is not the inspiration of the Order. Fawkes (or another phoenix?) is the inspiration.
Fawkes illustrates the theme of the septology. The cycle of life must be allowed to continue. To violate the natural order, as Voldemort wishes to do by refusing to , is to stop the cycle. Not only is it evil in and of itself, it creates more evil to maintain such a violation.
Dumbledore knows he someday, he is merely human and accepts it. When Snape makes the UV with Narcissa, Dumbledore knows his time is counted in months, not years, and so he makes his plans. The greatest wizard of all time have a way to help Harry without violating the cycle of life.
Posted by Patty from Quincy MA on July 16, 2007 5:08 PM
I agree with some of those. nice job by the way
1) Dumbledore most likely froze Harry because he knew that Harry would try to save him and, possibly, in the attempt . Dumbledore had already said countless times that Harry's life is far more valuable than his, and so he wanted to protect Harry at all costs, rather than Harry being a witness to his "supposed"
2) I don't think this points whatsover to the idea that Dumbledore planned to fake his own , only that it would have been simple to fake Draco's , simply by telling people that he had d in the attempt of ing Dumbledore.
4) That's true, that most of the time the avada kedavra curse usually doesn't come with the "flying" side-effects; only thing is that the movies mess this up because cedric diggory was blasted off his feet by the ing curse. I don't know if this had any bearing on what happens in the book, however.
Interesting point about Dobby, but I really don't think that JKR meant that as an allusion to Dumbledore, but merely re-remphasizing the fact that Dobby would do anything for Harry Potter.
Oh, and I REALLY liked the last points you made, especially the one about Snape, if he really didn't mean to Dumbledore and Fawkes perhaps able to save Dumbledore!
And, I have no doubt WHATSOEVER that Dumbledore DID NOT make a horcrux. To make a horcrux, you have to tear your soul in two by KILLING SOMEONE and then encasing that torn bit of your soul. Dumbledore, being the man that he was, would NOT someone just so that he could make a horcrux for himself. I think we have sufficient evidence from the books that he is not that type of person to play to lightly with the lives of others.
Posted by Stacey Chu from Chatsworth, CA on July 16, 2007 7:09 PM
i agree with most everything on the clues about dumbledore not being , and i would hope he isnt . but i would like to mention that dumbledore's portrait is hanging in his old office. his portrait would only be hung up there if he would become , or maybe resign from their post, etc, and i dont see any loopholes to trick Hogwarts into thinking that he was , unless hogwarts knowns something we do not, and that is in fact dumbledore did not , but mearly 'resigned' from his post, which i would then believe dumbledore is still alive.
Posted by Shannon from Lawrenceville on July 16, 2007 7:09 PM
Well, the picture of Dumbledore only showed him sleeping...
Posted by Michael C. from Pasadena, CA on July 16, 2007 9:54 PM
I agree that Dumbledore is not evil enough to creat a horcrux, and I couldn't imagine him ing ANYONE... but I'm reading the Philosophers Stone again (ing time until the ly Hallows comes out) and when Harry get Dumbledore on his Chocolate Frog card, it says Dumbledore is "particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindewald in 1945..." I'm not sure if this means Grindewald was ed by Dumbledore...
Posted by monika on July 17, 2007 12:10 AM
But I think we forget about one thing: When we think Snape uses the Avada Kedavra curse JK describe that a green flash comes out of Snape's wand GREEN using Expelliarmus gives the result of a RED flash. so it couldn't have been Expelliarmus or?
Posted by Michael from Malmö,Sweden on July 17, 2007 03:19 AM
I keep wondering how Voldemort is going to be ed.
Have you noticed that the good wizards and witches won't use the ing Curse? Even when they are fighting the Eaters at Hogwarts in HBP, while the Eaters are firing off ing Curses in all directions, the good guys and girls are all using very "low fat" hexes (Impedimenta etc). Apart from Harry uttering a few "Crucios" at Snape, and one at Bellatrix, I can't remember a good wizard/witch using any of the Unforgiveable Curses.
Seems to me that that puts them at something of a disadvantage! Like the fight at Hogwarts: Harry hits several Eaters with his spells, but because they are lightweight hexes, those Eaters pop right back up a few minutes later and keep trying to the good guys. This seems a bit impractical. If people are trying to you, surely it's ok to have a go at ing them? If every hex Harry had used in that fight had been a ing Curse, he'd have nailed several Eaters. And why not?
JK seems very reluctant to have the good guys use the Unforgiveable Curses. But if they're not going to - how are they going to dispose of Voldemort?
Posted by Tom on July 17, 2007 04:39 AM
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