Search Beyond Hogwarts:
by David Haber
These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really , or at least Snape Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.
> Read the full article
Pages: << < 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 ... > >>
Reader Comments: (Page 19)
I'm envisioning that last battle scene a little differently. In my version Harry has Snape's wand. Snape demands his wand back in the name of Dumbledore. Harry, like Dumbledore, chooses to put his faith in Snape. Gives back the wand to Snape. A dicision Harry tremendously regret moments after. And yes, I do think Snape is good But J.K. won't give it up until the climatic final stretch.
Posted by mikey from New Jersey on March 4, 2007 7:55 PM
Thanks, your comments always make me think.
I used to think that Dumbledore faked his , but now, from reading what others have written, ironically, I have changed my mind. It just doesn't seem plausible anymore, especially from a literary point of view. Harry must go on alone, for the story to progress. I miss Dumbledore, and grieve for him as much as I could for a fictional character, but he had to go. However, JKR has said that wizards can make their voices known after so I am looking forward to hearing more from Dumbledore.
I am curious about Dumbledore's watch also. What does it do, why 12 hands? If it is a time travel device as some others have suggested, why couldn't Dumbledore go back in time and fix every problem, get rid of all the horcruxes, then eliminate Voldemort before he attacked the Potters?
Posted by Patty from Quincy,Massachusetts on March 5, 2007 05:49 AM
I found someting very interesting about the "lightning-struck tower", which is, as Trelawney stated, a tarot card (16th major arcana).
Tarot cards can be interprated in many different ways, which makes it difficult to find any direct link between what the cards mean and HP saga. But the pictures mainly don't change. Tower's picture is very close to HBP story.
When the tower is struck, two persons fall from the top and a fire starts. Here, we have the fire (Hagrid's house) and the fall. The fact that Dumbledore falls from the tower seems to be a clear reference towards tarot tradition, for it doesn't really add to the story.
But there is here a clear difference: only Dumbledore falls in HBP, while two persons fall on the tarot card: one is crowned (Dumbledore) and one isn't (?). If Jo really wanted to stick with the tradition, she could make it different, and have two persons fall down (Malfoy for instance, and Snape would save him). It is strange that Jo, with her sense of details, suggested all that is shown on the card, and stopped halfway. Does it mean that Dumbledore really impersonates two persons, the headmaster and someone else? This clue would be decisive, because in the beginning of HBP, Dumbledore tells Harry that only two persons know about the full prophecy. We understand: Dumbledore and Harry. If Dumbledore is also someone else, then the two persons are Dumbledore and the other one he impersonates (as an "agent double"). In that case, Harry wouldn't know the whole prophecy (and neither would we). I know the stakes are low, but it's worth considering.
Posted by herve from strasbourg on March 5, 2007 08:49 AM
I have a similar scene in my mind, where Harry has to trust Snape with his life. In your scenario, how do you think Harry gets Snape's wand?
In my scenario, Harry inadvertently comes a hairsbreadth away from ruining Snape's master plan to bring down Voldemort, but in the end trusts Snape (who s in the valiant effort of saving Harry).
Posted by Patty from Quincy Massachusetts on March 5, 2007 09:20 AM
About number two of your theory.
I have looked it up in my dutch version of the book and what stands in the American book also doesn't stand in the Dutch one. To me is this very strange! Why does is stand in the British version and not in the American and Dutch version and probably in more versions around the world?
I don't understand the explanation why this could be a part of the plot, but this could be a secret what J.K. Rowling wants to told us, by writing it in one version around the world.
Posted by Tom Keller from Hoevelaken, The Netherlands on March 6, 2007 09:13 AM
I knew Dumbledore was not because why would Snape really him after all that loyalty to him and it was Dumbledore who got Snape's name cleared out of the Ministry as a eater. it would be really stupid if he went back, that would really prove that he is an idiot. Hating Harry not solve anything because Harry's father used to bully him. Snape tried to help Harry once by giving Dolores Umbridge a fake Veritaserum
Posted by trudy from Lowell ,Massachusetts on March 7, 2007 1:19 PM
A very interesting theory indeed, but I have a small question. If what you say about Dumbledore being reborn is true, wouldn't that be a perfect way to make you immortal? Because if it's so, then I think Voldermort would have come up with the idea long time ago.
Posted by David from Stockholm, Sweden on March 10, 2007 06:06 AM
I don't know whether Dumbledore had planed it all with snape - but I hope he had:) -, or if even Dumbledore planed it with someone other than snape - but I don't suppose so -.
But there's something, make us almost certain that Dumbledore had planed to be ed, and had a plan.
On the same place Dumbledore was ed in, before minutes of his , befores split of seconds of Draco's enterning. Dumbledore made harry Frozen and gave him another kind enchantment, before even half a second of Draco's entering. Then he was disarmed by Malfoy.
That means that he knew that Draco was going to enter and try to him at the very moment - so he gave harry directly the enchantment, he wouldn't had done it if he didn't know that Draco was going to enter -.
While he has his wand, he could possibly disarm or stop Malfoy before his entering, or he could hide or do something - for a great wizard like Dumbledore -.
But he didn't, and allow Draco to enter.
That makes us almost certain that Dumbledore could had survived and protected harry, but (we all think that) he had a plan to be done.
I think that this is an incontrovertible evidence.
Posted by ZaYoOoD from E.Riffa, Bahrain on March 10, 2007 10:34 AM
I am with you, no way Dumbledore wasn't working on some kind of plan. Even if Snape did not confide anything in him, there was just too much for him to have missed it all and been totally unprepared, I mean, we had Malfoy blubbering details in Myrtle's bathroom, Harry flat out told him about the Unbreakable Vow. He could not have been unaware.
It comes down to was it a plan where he was anyway and knew it and agreed to allow Snape to him, or was it a case of him testing Snape, with the help of others, like Slughorn, perhaps Wormtail even.
Whatever happened, it is just not believable that he was fooled by Snape.
Posted by karen from texas on March 10, 2007 3:45 PM
Karen and ZaY-
The logical portion of me thinks that Snivellus is a good guy- Dumbledore trusted him and I trust Dumbledore.
The s-m-r-t portion of me says that Snivellus is an evile evil man who hated Padfoot, hated Prongs, and hated young Potter. Hey that is so cool they all start with the same letter!
I hate Snape because Snape hated James and Sirius. But were I to say that I believe him a Eater I would be a liar. The world isn't sorted into nice people and Eaters.
And when Harry told Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow, what he (Dumbledore) said was something along the lines of "It be addressed" or "It be taken care of" or something like that. So Dumbledore didn't say "I'll make sure that Snape won't anyone or help Malfoy with his evil plot". He didn't release any details, but he also didn't say Yes or No.
I believe in the Phoenix Theory that I stole from Tonks as well as that of this site: That Dumbledore and Snape had planned for Snape to him.
So Dumbledore didn't tell Snape he was an Animagus, so he (Dumbledore) alone knows that Dumbledore is a phoenix!
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on March 11, 2007 4:57 PM
You know, I rather doubt that Dumbledore planned for Snape to him as such. That sounds a little too calculating - in a nasty, manipulative way. I think that when Dumbledore and Snape talked the whole thing through, D would have seen the possibility of Snape being asked to make an Unbreakable Vow. When it came down to it and Snape told Dumbledore just what vow he had been asked to make, Dumbledore would have told him that if it came down to it, he wanted Snape to go through with it for two reasons; to protect Draco from committing and also to protect Snape's position as a double agent. Dumbledore would have seen those, as well as Snape's life, as far more important than his own life.
I don't think for a moment that Dumbledore was "fooled" by Snape. Harry is wrong and he find it out at the last possible moment when Snape makes it possible for him to Voldemort. The things that Voldemort cannot understand are love and someone facing ingly, even embracing it.
I really can't see Dumbledore using Unbreakable Vows. That sort of thing can backfire badly and in addition it takes away the element of free choice, which I think Dumbledore values. I also think the idea of "life s" is being interpreted a little too legalistically here at times. Dumbledore describes that sort of thing as being "magic at its deepest and most impenetrable". It does not rely on rules and regulations, I think, but on love and loyalty. The same with Lily's sacrifice for Harry. I very much doubt she knew what would happen, or that it was in any way planned.
Posted by Elizabeth from Australia on March 14, 2007 04:45 AM
I love your scenario. In the end is it really Dumbledore's plan that Snape is carrying out?
As for me I really don't want to think to much about how it all end. J.K. is like a magician and ultimately I would rather be taken in by her slight of hand than to figure out her secrets. That being said, I see Snape as being her big finale. She won't show her hand till the last possible moment; we'll be guessing all the way.
So like you said, Harry be on the verge of ruining Snapes plan [Snape is evil]. Snape convinces Harry to trust him [Snape is good]. Harry does, then Snape turns on Harry and offers him up to the Dark Lord [Snape is evil again]. This is when J.K. do the ultimate twist. Though I haven't a clue as to what the twist is.
Posted by mikey from New Jersey on March 15, 2007 8:41 PM
Pages: << < 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 ... > >>