by Galadriel Waters and E.L. Fossa
It's not enough to have a feeling that Dumbledore's not dead, or to want him not to be dead. What you need is a way to prove he's not dead. We at Wizarding World Press are happy to help you work on techniques needed for doing that. Sleuthing Harry Potter has become a popular sport -- er, pastime -- for thousands of series fans.
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Reader Comments: (Page 4)
The difference being that Gandalf was raised from the , and Dumbledore was reborn. So technically Dumbledore isn't "doing a Gandalf", because Dumbledore was reborn from his own ashes, not raised from his grave.
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on March 9, 2007 4:38 PM
Gandalf wasn't raised from the , he never d but was transformed by his ordeal from Gandalf the Gray to Gandalf the White. His companions only believed him . For Dumbledore to return everyone believes him would be doing a Gandalf.
And wouldn't Dumbledore have been reborn as an infant or as a baby pheonix?
Posted by Patty from Quincy MA on March 10, 2007 09:58 AM
My bad. I dont know too much about LOTR, so I didn't know that Gandalf didn't . But then if Dumbledore did then there is a difference because Dumbledore was actually and Gandalf wasn't.
And I had the same thought about Dumbledore being reborn as an infant, but that was answered by my friend Michelle:
Dumbledore would come back as his Animagus form, that of an adult phoenix. You notice that Padfoot and Prongs, when they transform, have no difference in their animal descriptions. The animal form doesn't change at all with age: the Animagus forms never grow older. So if Dumbledore was reborn, it wouldn't get younger either, because then he couldn't get older. So since Dumbledore's Animagus form is an adult phoenix, he would be reborn as.. you guessed it.. an adult phoenix!
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on March 10, 2007 1:28 PM
LOTR is an excellent series for anyone who loves ancient mythology and lore and all things magical, as is the Narnia series.
How do you know the animal form doesn't change with age?
This would be a crucial characteristic when dealing with a phoenix animagus.
We have only seen the Prongs Patronus, right? Not the animagus Prongs.
Posted by Patty from Quincy MA on March 11, 2007 05:50 AM
Oh yeah. I meant Wormtail, not Prongs.
And we know that because we have seen Padfoot transform and every time he does we are provided with a description, and the description never changes.
And I do like LOTR, my dad and his friend are obsessed with it. Im just too busy being Dumbledores gurlie to be Gandalfs gurlie too. and I love Narnia, but my friend Elissa is obsessed with Narnia, her whole family is. its kind of freaky actually.
Is this what we do to non- Harry Potter fans?
And I think that Dumbledore is an Animagus, because otherwise the scene I have played out in my head of the end of ly Hallows is pointless, on a count of it involves alot of fire and Dumbledore showing up as "Fawkes"
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on March 12, 2007 1:20 PM
Ashley: I think you are right in saying that the phoenix appearing in the sky, at the burial, is a proof that Dumbledore is alive. But I don't think the phoenix is Dumbledore: Harry wasn't really sure he saw something; a real phoenix would have been easy to see. Besides that, when the phoenix is re-born, it becomes an ugly baby-bird.
I think that the phoenix Harry saw was Dumbledore's patronus, sent as a tribute to Dumbledore's by Dumbledore himself, using a time-turner. This Dumbledore, not yet , was at the burial and be featured in the ly Hallows, not appearing as Dumbledore but as someone else, because Dumbledore isn't an animagus (too common), but he can transform into another human person (humanmagus?).
Of course, I have no real clue for all this, only a feeling.
Posted by herve from strasbourg on March 13, 2007 10:26 AM
Actually if you read further back I have addressed this situation somewhat-
As far as we know, Animagus forms don't change at all age wise, so if Dumbledore's Animagus form is an adult phoenix he would be reborn as an adult phoenix.
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on March 13, 2007 10:47 AM
If Dumbledore could change his appearance, he would either be a Metamorphmagus, or need the Polyjuice Potion, which are just as common as being an Animagus.
My GoF book is about twice as thick now because I have marked all the phoenix references I have come across.
and so is my OotP book, except that one is filled with quotes that I like...
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on March 13, 2007 2:06 PM
Wormtail changes quite drastically, although I think that could be stress about possibly being found by Sirius.
He was very longlived and healthy for a rat otherwise, now that you mention it.
My non-HP-obsessed friends do sometimes give me odd looks, when I try to talk about these things. But then again, I am used to it by now:) I have been reading and watching freaky things almost since I could read...
Posted by Patty from Quincy,Massachusetts on March 13, 2007 4:21 PM
Ashley: I agree with you that the phoenix plays a big role: when Dumbledore isn't there to rescue Harry, the phoenix seems to protect him, he attacks the basilisk, at the end of GoF, Harry hears the phoenix sing.
But Fawkes himself seems to be a real phoenix: he s and get to be born again as a little bird; he can disappear in Hogwarts. I don't think an animagus phoenix could and revive. And I don't think that Sirius and James could apparate in Hogwarts when they were in their animagus form.
Speaking of metamorphmagus, we don't know much about them. Tonks is able to change the shape of her nose and the color of her head, could she go further and appear as a totally different person, I'm not sure. And Polyjuice Potion is fairly difficult to manage: you need to take it once an hour.
Posted by herve from strasbourg on March 14, 2007 12:53 AM
Actually, my reading of LOTR is that Gandalf did actually . His body was destroyed by his battle with the Balrog, but since his soul remained and he was in truth an angelic, or immortal being, he could be sent back to complete his task. In The Two Towers Gandalf quite specifically says to Wormtongue that he has "passed through fire and ".
I am quite sure that Dumbledore is truly . I think what Harry sees at the is Dumbledore's soul winging its way to freedom. What Dumbledore calls "the next great adventure".
Voldemort and Dumbledore are so completely opposed to one another, and I think their attitudes towards are very deliberately balanced and contrasted. Voldemort is terrified of and do anything to avoid it. Dumbledore while not purposely seeking it, can accept it without a qualm when it comes.
Posted by Elizabeth from Australia on March 14, 2007 05:10 AM
Im lucky I wasn't paying attention in science today enough to read this, otherwise i would agree with you, that Tonks cannot change herself completely.
But the fact is that she can.
In OotP, when Harry and the rest of the lot went to Kings Cross, they were greeted by an old lady with gray hair, and i think she may have had glasses, but im not sure.
so the point is, Dumbledore would have to be a metamorphmagus or something.. and that metamorphmaguses can totally change their outer appearence.
And Herve, I didn't say that Fawkes was Dumbledore. Im positive that Fawkes is a real phoenix, not an Animagus. I am saying that if Dumbledore were an Animagus he would possess all the properties of the animal he could turn into. I don't know how I would prove this, so dont ask me to, because I don't know. Im fairly certain that this is the case though.
Posted by Ashley from Missouri on March 14, 2007 1:57 PM
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